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LDC on snare drum
Old 12th March 2014
  #1
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
LDC on snare drum

I am not 100% happy with the i5 on snare. I have used a 57 in the past and was not 100% with that mic either.

So, I am looking at options. I am considering something like a CAD M179 or some variety of SDC. Its a rock drums setup so it needs to handle some db's

What has your experience been with condensers on snare drums?
Old 12th March 2014
  #2
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frans's Avatar
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
What is it you don't like on the i5 and what would you expect from a LDC? I confess I occasionally used tube SDCs on snares maybe for the same reasons, but depending on tuning, the way the hihat is used and whatnot I still got a few other contenders around. Snare bottom something different. Goes to a condenser most of the time. And I'm not thaaaat hot on condensers in general. I mean, the hear a lot of things left and right and get distracted.
Old 12th March 2014
  #3
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
It all depends on how you look at capturing a drum set.

I use an LDC on snare all the time. But it's about 6 feet up in the air. That mic is the primary sound of the snare and the rest of the kit (excepting maybe the kick).

I use a small, cheap dynamic like a 57 up close to the snare to add impact. Small so the drummer is less likely to smack it. Cheap so I don't care when he does.
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #4
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans ➑️
What is it you don't like on the i5 and what would you expect from a LDC? I confess I occasionally used tube SDCs on snares maybe for the same reasons, but depending on tuning, the way the hihat is used and whatnot I still got a few other contenders around. Snare bottom something different. Goes to a condenser most of the time. And I'm not thaaaat hot on condensers in general. I mean, the hear a lot of things left and right and get distracted.
The i5 feels just a little too scooped in the mids. I have managed to get "average" to "good" snare sounds with it but have not found the right mix for "great" The 57 it replaced was a little too middy and didn't have enough top. The i5 did fix that issue. I may be able to create the magic with EQ etc but that has never worked before. If its not great at the source its never going to be.

I have a demo of my latest effort in this thread.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-...mic-setup.html
Old 12th March 2014
  #5
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frans's Avatar
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The i5 better should feel scooped, it's built like that. ;-) What I hear is ye olde "how a thing sounds in the room at a few feet distance and a certain SPL" versus the close mic signal - apples and oranges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoXu6ufZ_9U
We never hear the drums at the position where the close mics sit. So it's all quite some trickery to make it into something it's not. What can I say, the snare is something I've been chasing for years and years - my slutty excuse is, I need a dozend or so mics just for snare duties for finding the one that will sound the most like we hear it in the room. The close top snare mic would be my last bet for getting that done alone, sorry! Duh. I can use it just to add some "whack!" to an existing sound from the overheads and oh so important, the room. For me, the close snare top mic is about one single aspect in the sound of a snare, unfortunately not more. So what I am looking for to that end is a mic that counterbalances the close mic dilemma with some illusion of how the snare sounds, say, at arms lenght. If that comes with a usable dose of hihat rejection then I'm in. My attempts to help the illusion with a condenser mic suffer from the close mic dilemma as well, just with some more top end (and eventually more bleed from all the other noises).
Is that what you want to get down, a snare top mic that sounds more like the real thing?
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #6
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans ➑️
Is that what you want to get down, a snare top mic that sounds more like the real thing?
No, the overheads do a pretty good job with that. I want the snare mic to add a bit more mids/punch to minimize the amount of corrective EQ needed.
Old 12th March 2014
  #7
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frans's Avatar
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Then get more mics ;-) The usual contenders, may I suggest the Beyer M201 is like a better SM57 and without the nasal peak. Way more focused polar pattern. Smaller, less output (= good for loud sources).
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #8
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans ➑️
Then get more mics ;-) The usual contenders, may I suggest the Beyer M201 is like a better SM57 and without the nasal peak. Way more focused polar pattern. Smaller, less output (= good for loud sources).
Cool. Thanks for the tip.
Old 12th March 2014
  #9
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Josephson e22s, it's not LDC but sounds great and like a whole drum, not just top head which you get from dynamic microphones
Old 12th March 2014
  #10
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WinnyP's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Try the beyer mentioned or if you can get the hi-hat etc bleed ok then try an se electronics se4.
Old 12th March 2014
  #11
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chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I personally like the 57, but you could add a 451 to give you the extra brightness.
The Beyer is a little brighter than a 57. I've used it and it does the job.
Maybe try a D19, although I think it sounds similar to a 57.
I would love to try an e22 sometime.
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
I personally like the 57, but you could add a 451 to give you the extra brightness.
The Beyer is a little brighter than a 57. I've used it and it does the job.
Maybe try a D19, although I think it sounds similar to a 57.
I would love to try an e22 sometime.
D19 is nothing like 57, it lack those woody frequencies but has awesome low end (best I ever heard in dynamic microphone, sounds almost like condenser down low, no mud just pure power). Bleed is pretty ugly and it's
unnatural in high mids, I find it unusable on snare drum but great on kick drum and floor tom (and guitar amps, bass amps, double bass and actually anything that can live with funky mids)
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #13
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chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyjanopan ➑️
D19 is nothing like 57, it lack those woody frequencies but has awesome low end (best I ever heard in dynamic microphone, sounds almost like condenser down low, no mud just pure power).
Maybe it depends on the D19 then. This was a D19c.
I just did a bunch of recording and the D19 didn't sound radically different from the 57, although I agree it didn't have the 'woody' frequencies and on every snare I preferred the 57.
Never noticed the 'aswesome low end'.
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➑️
Maybe it depends on the D19 then. This was a D19c.
I just did a bunch of recording and the D19 didn't sound radically different from the 57, although I agree it didn't have the 'woody' frequencies and on every snare I preferred the 57.
Never noticed the 'aswesome low end'.
Try it on kick then. Maybe yours is broken, if you look to specs you'll notice that it should extend to 30Hz and it is not even cardioid, more like omni and that's exactly my experience with it.
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #15
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by frans ➑️
Then get more mics ;-) The usual contenders, may I suggest the Beyer M201 is like a better SM57 and without the nasal peak. Way more focused polar pattern. Smaller, less output (= good for loud sources).
I have more mic's, just not your typical snare mics. I recently saw Thomas Lang using a 414 on snare batter which is what got me thinking about my M177's even something like a 4050 on snare.
Old 13th March 2014
  #16
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Chonson's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'll definitely second the m201 recommendation; it can definitely be right. I've also had it feel really muddy in some cases.

My all time favorite snare sound I've ever gotten was a Shure KSM27 pointed at the side of the snare shell, cheated up maybe 2 inches from dead-level with the shell, about 9 inches away. Holy cow. That kit had one close mic (on the kick) and it was like it was in your brain when you listened on headphones.
(B52 in kick, KSM27 a few inches from snare; FET47 about 6-8" from kick, no tunnel; single 4038 overhead at about 5 feet, Peluso R14 about 8 feet in front pointed down).
Old 14th March 2014
  #17
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SoundandVision's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I have migrated over to a Beyer m201 as well for the close mic. I have used LDC's as an experiment more as a complimentary "shell" mic. You really have to watch out for high SPLs near the snare drum though. You will either damage the mic or see the transient lopped off (if you are mixing ITB). Now if you are trying to hear what a snare drum actually sounds like, use the close mic for the oomph and an LDC several feet away. If you can get around phase issues and hi hat bleed, you have something to work with. Good luck.
Old 14th March 2014
  #18
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
I regularly use the Beyer 201 and I like it a lot.

But the i5 is a great snare mic, and so is a 57. I have used them plenty of times and no complaints.



I have used the AKG 414, a LDC, plenty of times as the close mic on the snare with good results. It's a different sound, it's not for everything, but occasionally it works nicely.
Old 14th March 2014
  #19
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🎧 15 years
Heil PR 22, Telefunken M80.
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