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Deep Drum Thoughts 1: Chops vs. Groove
Old 23rd January 2009
  #1
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drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Deep Drum Thoughts 1: Chops vs. Groove

Are these mutually exclusive? Lately, I’ve encountered an anti-chops attitude from a lot of drummers. Likewise, while on staff at a private music school we were discouraged from emphasizing rudiments and technique. In my experience, groove trumps chops but chops facilitate groove when approached with the right perspective.

When I was a young kid, I didn’t really think about music in technical terms. It was purely a visceral experience. When I started to play instruments concerns about technique crept into my consciousness out of necessity. Without practice, I couldn’t make the sounds I heard in my head or on records. As a young adolescent, I spent 2 – 3 years totally obsessed with chops and listening to chops-oriented music (e.g. Chick Corea’s Electric Band of the 80’s). But around the age of 16, I purposefully de-emphasized chops to focus on groove, musicality and learning various styles. This was the result of two things, a decision to peruse performance as a career and a spiritual awakening that emphasized letting go of my ego.

This manner of thinking was pervasive in my career for a while, until I started to do some (very low profile) sessions, where I noticed that I was losing the groove at certain points, especially right before, during and after fills or anything that required complex sticking or speed. I experienced similar frustration on jazz gigs where I was not able to keep up with the musical conversations happening between other players.
In response, I broke out the practice pad, various books, and a metronome and started to work on my chops but with goal of being able to say what I wanted to say on my instrument within the context of a song and it’s groove. This helped immensely. But what was different from the chops-oriented phase of my youth? Motive. As a 15 year old, I wanted chops so I could impress. Now I just want to contribute to a musical conversation that sometimes calls for big words, but I want to do it in a way that keeps the focus on the music as a whole, is not distracting, and keeps the groove.

When it comes to music that emphasizes chops, while it can be impressive, I don’t find myself wanting to listen over and over. I’d rather listen to something with a good melody, deep pocket, clever arrangement, interesting textures, or poetic lyrics. I’d much rather listen to Brian Wilson’s Smile than say Dream Theater. One thing I love is complexity that is not apparent unless you analyze the tune. In other words, because musicality takes priority over ego these complex statements don’t seem complex at first. They don’t draw attention to themselves as technical prowess, but rather as emotional expression that just so happens to be sophisticated.
Old 23rd January 2009
  #2
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Goliath|Audio's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I agree that they are all connected. Superior technique allows you to maintain groove and playing stamina without question. Chops are what allow you to make those lyrical drum fills just flow from your hands. What is impressive is not if someone can do it, it is how they do it with ease and beautiful technique.

I think that the best drummers (Gadd, Colliuta, Buddy etc) have a great balance of those things. Even groove monsters like Steve Jordan and Adam Dietch have great technique and chops.

I hate watching these Modern Drummer videos of a 15 year old kid with chops play just stupid crap just to wow the crowd.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath|Audio ➑️
I agree that they are all connected. Superior technique allows you to maintain groove and playing stamina without question.
I disagree.. there a multitude of drummers that have nearly ZERO 'technique' by the definition used here.. that have an incredible feel. I am NOT saying it can't help, or that working towards developing one's technique is a negative thing.. but in today's climate.. I believe the fascination of playing fast overshadows playing good feeling time.
Here is a great example.. Here is this young man.. crazy fast hands if you watch his other videos, but he has trouble playing (in time) the first beat any student learns.
YouTube - Katy Perry - Hot n' Cold drum cover by WORLDS FASTEST DRUMMER - Tom Grosset

I think the mentality has changed in a degree.. We have WFD.. but NOT WBG.. (World's Best Groove)..

I realize this is young player.. and he could grow up to groove like Jeff Porcaro.. but the point is.. he probably won't. As he has logged SO MANY hours learning to play fast.. that playing a simple beat.. but more than that.. truly loving each note.. nudging it to the perfect spot within the groove isn't a priority.
Mel Lewis, Earl Palmer, Levon Helm and so many more like them.. have said so much with so little. For the record.. I am NOT siding on the groove side of things.. but I will state without apology, that if it doesn't groove.. then it isn't worth playing.

Great topic.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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I would go for a GROOVE drummer rather than a TECHNIQUE drummer. Groove drummers know their technique. Technique drummers that don't have groove can't have groove no matter how they try. :D
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 10 years
The key for me is asking myself the question " what would i like to excel at"? and since i want to gig and play with other people i will always want to improve my groove....i truly believe that anyone can bust out chops if they spend enough years in the practice room but developing a groove takes practice and playing and listening to lots of different music/drummers which is actually alot more work and alot harder to achieve..

BTW the worlds fastest drummer is a lame lame attempt to turn drumming into a sport....it sucks and anyone who is into it should have hot tar poured into their ears..
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by usefullidiot ➑️
BTW the worlds fastest drummer is a lame lame attempt to turn drumming into a sport....it sucks and anyone who is into it should have hot tar poured into their ears..
having hot tar poured into their ears would make absolutely no difference in their endeavors.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 15 years
They aren't mutually exclusive, but if you could only have one, or had to have more of one over the other.....
GROOVE
all the way!
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
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I watched a documentary on TV recently about the origins of Motown. It showed the original house band, The Funk Brothers, playing in a bar. The drummer was so simple yet something about his playing made me want to cry. The groove...... aww, man. This guy slayed me.

Groove every time. A-one, two, three - uh!
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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It's very simple. Drums are a MUSICAL instrument. We're supposed to play MUSIC on them.

So I checked out the guy on YouTube who can play 1183 single strokes per minute and thought, this is entertaining and everything, but what the F*CK does it have to do with MUSIC? Absolutely nothing of course.

Then it seems every young kid drummer out there these days does nothing but dream about how fast they can play double bass. I've seen a few recent drum competitions where it wound up becoming a "who can play double bass faster" competition. Extremely sad state of affairs.

And I'd say all this IS largely a function of the modern "Guitar Center" mentality where every little kid thinks he or she can become a rock star if they can just play fast. There is such a lack of focus on the MUSIC now, but I guess that's because the majority of kids out there who wanna be rock stars just don't have musical talent to begin with.

Then there's triggered samples that get quantized, beat detective in Pro Tools etc, you almost do not even need to play well anymore anyway, everything gets sterilized into a bland, lifeless string of notes. Modern production has erased the "need" for great musical and great feel playing.

Groove, technique, chops... as long as the end product is MUSICAL, it's all good.

I think Guitar Center and other modern popular music "hubs" of the universe should be sponsoring drum competitions that are based SOLELY on musicality and creativity. If you play a fast double-kick line longer than 5 seconds you get instantly disqualified and maybe even tarred and feathered. Judging would be based solely on the ability to deliver a MUSICAL performance... with feel, structure, phrasing, dynamics, etc. Then maybe modern-day kids would start to understand what drumming is really all about. But of course Guitar Center and the like is just concerned about selling stuff, so I'm sure they'd rather just have every little kid indeed think he or she is a rock star regardless of the music.

What's sad too... even in the professional realm... there's such a lack of creativity and innovation now. Even up into the `80's we had a lot of really great unique musical players emerge... but now, most of the newer "up and coming" or even "famous" players are just so bland and unoriginal.

Take a guy like Stewart Copeland... ultra unique innovative musical player with a super strong tasty musical character... and chops to boot!... he was what, roughly 25 years old when he hit the scene?... what 25 year old kid has emerged in the last 20 years or so that could even be considered a tiny fraction of what Copeland is? Please do not say Travis Barker or Joey Jordison etc... not to tarnish any names, but... there is a HUGE difference here, no comparison whatsoever.

I just saw a new "up and coming" progressive / fusion drummer the other night... on a stage in front of about 500 people... anyone reading this probably knows his name... don't wish to mention his name though... the guy is GOOD, no doubt, great level of chops, good timing, etc... and he impressed the sh*t out of the crowd... people went nuts... but, unfortunately, all he was doing pretty much the whole time was playing relatively fast straight double-bass notes and twirling his sticks around... just exercising a bunch of fairly simple but impressive looking standard fusion tricks. I will not say that he had no musicality at all, however, the focus of his entire presentation was the generic fusion tricks. Other than that, his overall "touch" and feel was a little quirky, and not much originality. And I've heard people call him a "world class" player. (???) The bar has apparently been very much lowered. A guy like, say Bozzio for instance, could slice this other guy's head clean off with 5 notes... just no comparison.... none.

Most of the new "respected" players out there, seems all they've done is watch all the current drum instructional DVDs out there and just learned all the proven tricks. I don't know, does this really make you a "great" or "world class" player? So you can play a bunch of Dave Weckl licks... so what????? The only person playing Dave Weckl licks should be Dave Weckl.

Sorry for the rant, but... musicality and originality in drumming has been declining for quite a while now. True unique stellar prodigy players have seemed to have stopped emerging quite a few years ago. What we have now are new "rock star" drummers in popular bands that can barely play (or maybe can just do some fast double-kick lick and nothing more... which is BOGUS), or guys that are perhaps "really good", but certainly not anywhere near the level of the true greats from the past that we all know and love.

So how do we fix this problem??? How do we create an environment where young aspiring drummers will understand how incredibly important it is to work on the musical and creative aspects of playing, and forget about all this "how many notes can I play in a minute" baloney....???

And I'll be so glad when the "fast double-kick" gimmick is long gone. Yes, fast double-kick playing can be extremely cool when used musically, but WAY more often, it is NOT used musically and just used as obnoxious cock-waving. If I want to hear a string of straight fast "notes", I'll go rent a jack-hammer. But when I put on a CD of music, I want to hear MUSIC.
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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🎧 10 years
30 years ago, long before I started playing drums, I worked in a band with a drummer who had on his resume', among others, Marvin Gaye and the Spinners. I asked him how cool it was to record with Marvin Gaye and what songs he was on. He told me "oh, no. I never recorded with him. They always use a studio drummer who can just keep it in the pocket and not detract from the vocal. Live, they wanted a showman who could hit all the accents with the choreography."

I think it all depends on the genre/situation. Country or R&B require unobtrusive groove; old-school punk needs speedy chops.

I prefer groove, 'cause I can't play fast no matter how much I practice.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 ➑️
So how do we fix this problem??? How do we create an environment where young aspiring drummers will understand how incredibly important it is to work on the musical and creative aspects of playing, and forget about all this "how many notes can I play in a minute" baloney....???
Fixing the problem starts with identifying the problem. In my opinion the problem starts with the ego. My theory is that most young people have a natural tenancy to feed their ego. As we mature we learn that things aren't about us as individuals but how we work and interact with other people. Our focus moves from ourselves to something outside of ourselves. With this change come new priorities: our motives morph from the self to our work and our relationships. We start to realize that all those fills seems out of place and are distracting, that the collective groove may be lacking.

My students seem to automatically play less when I put them in a group context. So, organizing student bands is a priority.

Also, students like to be challenged. As teachers we can show them that keeping a rock solid groove is every bit as challenging as playing 1185 single strokes in one minute.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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Lem0n's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 ➑️
-- I think Guitar Center and other modern popular music "hubs" of the universe should be sponsoring drum competitions that are based SOLELY on musicality and creativity. If you play a fast double-kick line longer than 5 seconds you get instantly disqualified and maybe even tarred and feathered. Judging would be based solely on the ability to deliver a MUSICAL performance... with feel, structure, phrasing, dynamics, etc. Then maybe modern-day kids would start to understand what drumming is really all about. --
Although this is a good idea I think it has one major flaw. You can't base competitions on musicality since it's not measurable. It's always only opinions, "I like this one better, because...".

For example, I could listen to Steve Gadd 24/7 where a young aspiring drummer probably would yawn after 3 minutes. It would be the other way around if we would be talking about, say Joey Jordison. There's a drummer I really don't get but I still can't say that Gadd would be better or more musical. (I know I would like to say that, but I just can't, not in public anyway )

I agree that there's a big trend among young players to focus on their double-bass chops and fast singlestrokes, which I think can be fine to a certain degree when they are young. After all music should be fun and one sould play the stuff that makes you happy, right?

When I was young (well, technically I still am) I built my technique and chops by playing along to Chick Corea and Dave Weckl CDs and thanks to that I rarely have any problems executing "difficult" stuff. After I found Motown music and cats like Steve Jordan I know that nothing makes me feel better inside than a beat that's played extra funky in the pocket.

Anyway... I forgot what I wanted to say in this post but I guess the point is that: the musicians who will become great groove players surely find that out on their own if it is something that they truly love. I really don't think there's any less gifted musicians out there, there are just more people who want to play nowadays. Some of them take it seriously and some of them just want to challenge themselves in some way or have it as a hobby.

I think all music schooling should focus less on scales and rudiments and more on just time. But that's just my 0,02 euros
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lem0n ➑️
Although this is a good idea I think it has one major flaw. You can't base competitions on musicality since it's not measurable. It's always only opinions, "I like this one better, because...".
And it is precisely what follows the β€œbecause” that gives the opinion merit. Having an opinion about art is not outside the realm of reasonable discourse. If the opinion is well informed, well presented and is logically sound then that opinion is worth more than someone who just says β€œI don’t like it because it sucks.” Musicality is quantitatively measurable in some aspects, (did they keep the song form, did they lose the tempo, etc) and qualitatively assessable in other aspects.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lem0n ➑️
Although this is a good idea I think it has one major flaw. You can't base competitions on musicality since it's not measurable. It's always only opinions, "I like this one better, because..."
Classical music has competitions that play a meaningful role in fostering new talent and introducing them to the potential audience. American Idol performs a similar function in pop music.

Everyone accepts that it's not objective - it's judges voting - but it's not always the first place finisher that has the big career. The exposure is sometimes worth more than the winning.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
having hot tar poured into their ears would make absolutely no difference in their endeavors.
THAT is the funniest post I've read in a long time!
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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🎧 10 years
Chops vs. Groove

The first five letters of the word MUSICIAN are M U S I C...it is all about the music. What does the listener want to hear? For most people, Dream Theater, Rush, Mahvishnu, etc.. is over their heads. I, too, was a "musician ****" when I was a kid. I hated Charlie Watts, Moon, Ringo, etc. because I thought they had poor "technique" and equated their virtuosity with their abilities as a drummer. My taste and definition has changed. I see virtuosity and a more "technical" and complex style of music as self indulgent. Again...this is my opinion...but I prefer groove.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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🎧 10 years
Yeah I think the intention of the original post is well-taken. It amounts to asking, "do you want your music to be musical or not?" Well...musical, please.
I've always prided myself on playing as simply, sparsely and slowly as I could possibly get away with within the context of a song, but just recently I found that a new song calls for some bombastic fills that are beyond my skill level. I have to learn to do them because if I don't the song won't be right. But I don't have any intention or specific plan to use this new higher level of skill again anytime. In fact, I hope it goes away as soon as I'm done using it.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lem0n ➑️

I agree that there's a big trend among young players to focus on their double-bass chops and fast singlestrokes, which I think can be fine to a certain degree when they are young.
I think it is easier to practice and develop speedy singles than it is to practice groove and way easier to recognize it when you get there. If you want to get fast, there is a pretty clear-cut path to get there and it's pretty obvious when you succeed.

So - I see no votes for 'chops' here!

So my question to the group is - how DO you practice groove? How do you analyze what you are doing in this area and what steps do you take to get better at it?

Are there objective criteria to groove playing? Or is it just some subjective got-it-or-not 'thing' like "Soul"? Is there something more specific than just 'listening to good players'?

How do you improve your groove?
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
I think it is easier to practice and develop speedy singles than it is to practice groove and way easier to recognize it when you get there. If you want to get fast, there is a pretty clear-cut path to get there and it's pretty obvious when you succeed.

So - I see no votes for 'chops' here!

So my question to the group is - how DO you practice groove? How do you analyze what you are doing in this area and what steps do you take to get better at it?

Are there objective criteria to groove playing? Or is it just some subjective got-it-or-not 'thing' like "Soul"? Is there something more specific than just 'listening to good players'?

How do you improve your groove?
Listen to groove players like Matt Chamberlain, Charlie Watts, Bernard Purdie, John Bonham, Jim Keltner, Jeff Porcaro, etc...and you will hear them weaving a texture. The first thing that you will notice is they drive the groove by playing ahead or behind the beat of the music (usually ever so slightly). In addition, they play fewer fills (sometimes none at all) that take away from the groove. They also add in small ghost notes and accent notes to create texture and variety...but it is never too far from the center of the groove...and NEVER takes your attention away from the song. Learn the CLASSIC standards...sambas, shuffles, jazz swing, bossa nova, blues, etc.. and be able to play them WITHOUT A FILL. Your groove should be so locked in that you dont even need a fill...it detracts. Need an example? "Babylon Sisters", Steely Dan (Bernard Purdie), "Beast of Burden", Stones (Charlie Watts), "One Headlight", Wallflowers (Matt Chamberlain),
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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Goliath|Audio's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
Is there something more specific than just 'listening to good players'?
How do you improve your groove?
Listen with intent. You really need to analyze what they are doing to understand their groove beyond the beat.

Practice, play and practice.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
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msquared's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
So my question to the group is - how DO you practice groove? How do you analyze what you are doing in this area and what steps do you take to get better at it?
This is where I disagree with the "listen to all of these great simple drummers" statements. You can listen to great drumming all day long and, if that's all you're focusing on, not pick it up. The same cannot be said of mimicing Dave Weckl or Terry Bozzio or whomever. People do that stuff because by comparison, it is easy. If I want to play an early Weckl tune flawlessly, I get home from work every day and spend a few hours on the kit working through it. It is point A to point B stuff that freshmen in any given music college get put through to turn them into human sequence repeaters. It takes zero critical thinking.

But technique is important. Jeff Porcaro's warehouse full of ghost notes on "Rosanna", Matt Chamberlain absolutely owning the dynamics on "One Headlight", the Vinnie Colaiuta math workshop involved with "Seven Days" - none of this can be done convincingly if you have only been playing music for a year or two. All of it is very technique heavy.

Groove is the culmination of a bunch of different skills. Technique, listening ability, music appreciation, ego checking, all of that stuff is important. Much of these things have a number of approaches, some of which work well together and some of which do not. Musical maturity and groove involve tying those approaches together in a fashion which not only makes room for technique and timing and so on to work together in a complimentary fashion, but which allows the player to listen to what everybody else in the group is doing and leave room for it all. It is "playing for the song". It is getting several chefs together and NOT spoiling the soup. It is remembering that Carter Beauford has a very very high opinion of Charlie Watts, and with good reason.

By the way, for every gripe in this thread I can take out the word "drummer" and put in "guitarist" or "keyboardist" or really, any other instrument. The people who have pointed out that the drums are a musical instrument and not just a timekeeping device are right, and this is not a drummer-only problem. If I had a dollar for every toolbag pick sweeping Yngwie wannabe arpeggio machine I've ever played with.... and that's just the bass players!
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
I think it is easier to practice and develop speedy singles than it is to practice groove and way easier to recognize it when you get there. If you want to get fast, there is a pretty clear-cut path to get there and it's pretty obvious when you succeed.

So - I see no votes for 'chops' here!

So my question to the group is - how DO you practice groove? How do you analyze what you are doing in this area and what steps do you take to get better at it?

Are there objective criteria to groove playing? Or is it just some subjective got-it-or-not 'thing' like "Soul"? Is there something more specific than just 'listening to good players'?

How do you improve your groove?
Maybe by studying this?: YouTube - Rosanna's Shuffle
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
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ORGANIK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
awesome thread

must say cool thread you started here!

i think the best drummers are the ones that can do both well. LOL
i always tend to lean towards groove. a buddy of mine is a ridiculously good drummer. he is very very influenced by vinnie caouliuta. He can blow chops like no one biz, intense complicated, utterly ridiculous time signatures/changes with ease but never really grooves ever. we have also had this discussion. hes not an ego player. he is just a fiend for weird time signatures and grooves are boring to him, i guess under stimulation.

I do agree groove is where its at. and i really dont think it is something that can be really properly taught. you can teach ghost notes etc and help folks with placment and etc with notes. but i think in the end you really have it or you dont. look at a guy like tim alexander from primus. that guy is a feel machine. but does show some tech. ability a very nice blend of both worlds
Old 5th February 2009
  #24
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lordmiguel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumzealot ➑️
In my experience, groove trumps chops but chops facilitate groove when approached with the right perspective.
this is true, but the current american cultural emphasis is on chops (think guitar hero, rock band). and it is harder to teach groove so you need to spend more time on it.

not unlike that of the 80's geek rock (rush) or even the fact that yngwie malmsteen was known to a lot of people. it is funny (actually not) to see all this coming back after the 90's where the guitar solo went away and grunge and emo came in.

i remember a couple of years ago playing an R&B ballad i wrote to a publishing guy and it had a guitar solo in it (i was trying something different). He was like "whoa, who was that?). I'm like, "its me", and he was surprised.

So i guess now that nobody knows how to play instruments anymore the emphasis has gone back to chops.

those of us who were playing in bands when we were young know it was always a challenge to keep the drummer from doing 800 fills a song, find guitar player that wouldn't add 5000 lick to the song. repetitive stuff is fun to listen to but boring to play. and a lot of times the reason kids get into a particular instrument is because of the drum or guitar solo, not necessarily musical. and that's how i see it again today.

i'd say even the same thing on a team sport, everyone wants to be kobe or lebron so what you need to emphasize is the team element and getting into an unselfish groove.

i met a guy who was doing blue man group, he sent me some demos of his personal stuff and man, it was the most unemotional and technical chops oriented stuff i hadn't heard in a long time. and this guy is making living!
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
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🎧 10 years
The guy in the video Tom Grosset, might be fast but he sure doesnt have any rhythm or groove, drummings about feeling it, drummings a passion, hes not a drummer in my opinion hes just turning it into a sport as first mentioned, many drummers are different in there own way, theres plenty of drummers out there who arent exactly fast, but there passion in there playing is so eye opening.

Also, who can call themselves a drummer if they can't hold a beat together and play the basics that any first drummer starting out would know.
Old 14th February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
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cajonezzz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
all groove=work

all chops= no work

groove and chops ( tastefully deployed) = more work

groove +chops + cool vibe + big musical ears = even more work

groove+ chops+ cool vibe +big musical ears+ great bass player friends= priceless
Old 16th March 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 10 years
groove bABY YEAH

Hi All,

New here but love this thread and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. When I was younger I went for speed and fifficulty...., but now getting back into drumming grove is definately king. Well having both is probably King, but technically brilliant without groove - I have heard it is kinda boring. You need to be musical but you need to have YOUR personality in your drumming.......Some food for though, well my observations anyway

1.Larry Mullin Jnr - technically brilliant No, groove - yes, but definately his personality is his strength - and shows in his style.......

2.Phil Rudd AC/DC - does anyone do it better? Solid, groove, technically not that hard, can you do it as well as him, I doubt it - AC\DC in general have blown Aerosmith, Kiss, Motorhead off the stage as the support act.....WHY? Because they groove, the drummer does what suits the music,, but he does it so damn well.........

3. And my all time favourite Aaron Comess from the Spin Doctors, technically awesome - groove my favourite, remember Two Princes? Personality hell yeah, check out the snare sound on that album

He said in an interview he likes to practice technical stuff for an hour, but he will also play 15 mins straight a basic beat to a click to feel it and get in the groove, he will play slighty behind or in front of the beat and play around with it till it sounds right...............

Nick
Old 3rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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🎧 10 years
YouTube - Ulysses Owens and U.O Project

I went to high school with this cat. He's got some of the best chops I've heard, yet they're beautiful. He lays a groove and lights a fire under you at the same time.

Yes, he practices technique stuff when he's bored, but mainly focuses on the music. The technique comes naturally.

Scales, rudiments, etc. are all great things to shed, but practice that crap while focusing on the music and the big picture.
Old 3rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 ➑️

Take a guy like Stewart Copeland... ultra unique innovative musical player with a super strong tasty musical character... and chops to boot!... he was what, roughly 25 years old when he hit the scene?... what 25 year old kid has emerged in the last 20 years or so that could even be considered a tiny fraction of what Copeland is? Please do not say Travis Barker or Joey Jordison etc... not to tarnish any names, but... there is a HUGE difference here, no comparison whatsoever..
Taylor Hawkins, is a great on top of the beat kind of drummer, some of the same kind as stewart copeland
Old 3rd August 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The skill it takes to constantly keep the music moving forward is... a BITCH !! everybody from Tito Puente to Quest Love, Jordan to Phill Colins have groove, lots of people practice to get fast, but when they try to catch on to their heros and can not, they quickly realize that technique is nothing if you don't have the E A R S to use it..
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