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Deep Drum Thoughts 1: Chops vs. Groove
Old 8th August 2009 | Show parent
  #31
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 ➡️

Most of the new "respected" players out there, seems all they've done is watch all the current drum instructional DVDs out there and just learned all the proven tricks. I don't know, does this really make you a "great" or "world class" player? So you can play a bunch of Dave Weckl licks... so what????? The only person playing Dave Weckl licks should be Dave Weckl.

Sorry for the rant, but... musicality and originality in drumming has been declining for quite a while now. True unique stellar prodigy players have seemed to have stopped emerging quite a few years ago. What we have now are new "rock star" drummers in popular bands that can barely play (or maybe can just do some fast double-kick lick and nothing more... which is BOGUS), or guys that are perhaps "really good", but certainly not anywhere near the level of the true greats from the past that we all know and love.

So how do we fix this problem??? How do we create an environment where young aspiring drummers will understand how incredibly important it is to work on the musical and creative aspects of playing, and forget about all this "how many notes can I play in a minute" baloney....???
Don't forget Jason McGerr

YouTube - Jason McGerr playing at Modern Drummer Festival 2006
YouTube - Jason McGerr - Modern Drummer
Old 8th August 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
It's interesting how many posts in this thread are teaching us what music is or is supposed to be.

Music is whatever YOU want it to be. You can't tell someone that their idea of music is not what it's about at all - maybe not for you, but the sole purpose of music must be to give something to whoever listens to it. Therefore it follows that the only one who can judge what is good or bad music is the one listening to it, and that opinion can only go for that particular mind at that particular time.

Continue subjective opinion wank.
Old 12th September 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Maniac
 
Stixxs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Groove baby... Old Skool Style ...with Cozy Powell.

YouTube - Jeff Beck Group - Situation

...Sorry no Elastic Audio here.
Old 12th September 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Ari-M.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
just MO, but chops and groove are the same thing....I mean you can play complex parts and make them groove....I think the real problem is when people play out of their comfort zone and it DOES NOT groove....then it's "chops"....but I mean listen to someone like Josh Freese....his chops def. groove....his work on APC is a great example of this....he never breaks the groove, but plays insane chops.....I don't know why anyone would discourage from using rudiments around the kit....they are simple formulas for playing more complex parts.....I mean is it wrong to use a double stroke as a buildup ? or is it wrong to use a ruff to play some nice snare ghost notes??....
Old 14th September 2009 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
drumzealot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari-M. ➡️
.I mean is it wrong to use a double stroke as a buildup ? or is it wrong to use a ruff to play some nice snare ghost notes??....
Yes, it is wrong
Old 14th September 2009 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari-M. ➡️
just MO, but chops and groove are the same thing....I mean you can play complex parts and make them groove....I think the real problem is when people play out of their comfort zone and it DOES NOT groove....then it's "chops"....but I mean listen to someone like Josh Freese....his chops def. groove....his work on APC is a great example of this....he never breaks the groove, but plays insane chops.....I don't know why anyone would discourage from using rudiments around the kit....they are simple formulas for playing more complex parts.....I mean is it wrong to use a double stroke as a buildup ? or is it wrong to use a ruff to play some nice snare ghost notes??....

To me...chops applies to a player's viruosity (and a more self indulgent musical or drumming style that focuses more on displaying the player's skill than creating a cohesive musical fabric). Groove applies to their skill in creating a texture or a pattern that serves as foundation for the song. A groove player thinks less about calling attention to themselves...and more on supporting the band and the song.
Old 15th September 2009 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
Rolf Fiesel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stixxs ➡️
Groove baby... Old Skool Style ...with Cozy Powell.

YouTube - Jeff Beck Group - Situation

...Sorry no Elastic Audio here.

Cozy !!! The best I do miss him

chops YouTube - Best Drum Solo Ever!!! Cozy Powell
Old 4th January 2010 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Addict
 
Gulliver's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajonezzz ➡️
all groove=work

all chops= no work

groove and chops ( tastefully deployed) = more work

groove +chops + cool vibe + big musical ears = even more work

groove+ chops+ cool vibe +big musical ears+ great bass player friends= priceless
nicely put!

Having run a drum shop for several years near a major university, I had all the drumline cats in at one time or another. A lot of these guys were in local cover or original bands, and while they had great chops, not a single one could just groove a simple 2 and 4. I referred to them as "all hands and no feet" drummers. Stiff sounding, and no swing. Too much snare clatter- most couldn't just play a simple beat without trying to "go off" 2 bars in.
I had 15 year-old kids come in without a single lesson that could way outgroove any of them. There's nothing wrong with rudiments of chops, you need to have your mechanical skills down-to a point -but it's hard to impart feel. Not sure that can be taught..
Old 4th January 2010 | Show parent
  #39
Lives for gear
 
EddieTheRed's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
having hot tar poured into their ears would make absolutely no difference in their endeavors.
Possibly the best post of 2009 :D
Old 19th February 2010 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
As a church drummer who wants to groove and loves space what do you do when the leader (right out college) is always saying more toms and fills! I try to educate but OUCH! I would think he would understand, there are 200 voices a 30 piece orchestra and worship leaders. Someone NEEDS to simply lay down a groove for everyone else to build on. Love what I do but note sure how to deal with the young attitude of more has got to be better. Long live the pocket!
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