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Any Hallucinogen fans out there???
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #61
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
Actually Simon IS psytrance, he is the father of psytrance, although i reckon a lot of his songs are Goa-ish. Ive been a big fan of Simon for a long time, i have several hallucinogen albums aswell as vinyls, also i have some of his side project vinyls like Beast.

He shut down his webpage long time ago, but this here will sure bring back memories, for some old fans like me:

Hallucinogen website
I dont know if the father cause there were many innovative people at the time, but for sure the most complete and "perfect" representation of th genre.
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #62
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by umptanum ➑️
I dunno. I appreciate the guitar playing, but I think if this was dropped in the middle of a psychedelic trance set you'd have a lot of people walking away. Yes, this track has the formula for a psychedelic trance tune, but there's nothing in there that bends my brain sonically... all I hear are phased guitars playing the same guitar tone I've heard a million times before.

I'm wondering if this why newer psytrance doesn't really do it, even if folks today broke out of their boxes and did something better than the same Virus squeaks over SH-101 basslines... a lot of what made mid-90s psychedelic trance tunes so amazing was that we'd never heard those sounds before. We were used to synthesizers making pop music and cheezy new age crap, and suddenly these ball-trippers started doing mind-blowing things with discarded analogs and gated filter rides.

Perhaps the mojo is gone because nowadays we've heard it all before. Making unheard of sounds on computers is kinda par for the course whereas it was all new and interesting 15 years ago.

Still, no one layers the love like Simon.
You got a point, interesting track not generic, it has a goa vibe blended with a modernish psy kick but it lacks imagination and experimentantion imo. Is that all you can do with the guitar part?, i think not, do you need to overmodulate stuff? no but this music is about exploring sonic territories , i would use some send fx (pedals, stompbox, itb... whatever) to blend with the guitar and automate to create contrast with 100% dry, to create something (new?) idk but it seems to lack a psychedelic (as a general open-minded) aproach. I would also automate some reverb in some point also for contrast in the arragement and a little more depth. If i could add some light percussion and create good rhyhtm to spice things up and make it more danceable, without ruining the track i would have a party rocker, i think :P. And i m sure many guys here wouldn't like it. :/

It's never that simple for me (because i m a perfectionist) and my tracks (some years ago, i don't make such now) also had a similar problem not rhythmic and groovy for parties, just for my day or night trippin'.

But each to his own!
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by login ➑️
I dont know if the father cause there were many innovative people at the time, but for sure the most complete and "perfect" representation of th genre.
I don't want to diss Dualflip's opinion (I respect his perspective) but IMO you are right - there were a lot of people creating the scene at that time...in essence, GT was an emergent property of the fusion of global culture and technology...the big idea was that there were no 'superstar DJ's' - more of a label or sound system/collective style.

I'm linking to the Wiki page because it comes close to the truth, albeit with the omission of Sven Vath...also there are quite a few UK/international players (from other genres) who helped nurture the scene: Psychedelic trance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old 26th September 2012
  #64
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🎧 10 years
What Simon illustrated with his music better than anyone at the time was that he sonically captured what a tribal drug trip was, and he literally glorified the drug that did it best: LSD.

Before that, smoking pot or dropping acid and listening to Floyd or the Grateful Dead was about as good as it got... in fact a lot of the early Goa parties were DJ'd by old hippies that spun all those 70s rock tunes. It was the next generation, personified by the likes of Simon, that understood how non-lyrical synth music could take the experience to the next level and put everyone in the crowd on the same page.

In fact I would argue that analog synth tones in general are very conducive to the LSD trip... their electrical nature really compliments that kind of experience in ways that natural instruments don't quite. Anyone who has been in the middle of one of these psychedelic trance nights knows what I'm talking about. Simon obviously understood this at one point, though his later work deviates from it a lot

It's no accident that a totally sober individual can put some headphones on and close their eyes and be taken on a little pseudo drug trip with this kind of music. It's engineered specifically to do this and Simon was a pioneer of this technique. Want to somehow describe a LSD or shroom experience to someone who hasn't?... play some Hallucinogen for them.

This is another deviation of new psytrance from old... the new stuff sounds good while high, the old stuff WAS being high.
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #65
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by umptanum ➑️
What Simon illustrated with his music better than anyone at the time was that he sonically captured what a tribal drug trip was, and he literally glorified the drug that did it best: LSD.

Before that, smoking pot or dropping acid and listening to Floyd or the Grateful Dead was about as good as it got... in fact a lot of the early Goa parties were DJ'd by old hippies that spun all those 70s rock tunes. It was the next generation, personified by the likes of Simon, that understood how non-lyrical synth music could take the experience to the next level and put everyone in the crowd on the same page.

In fact I would argue that analog synth tones in general are very conducive to the LSD trip... their electrical nature really compliments that kind of experience in ways that natural instruments don't quite. Anyone who has been in the middle of one of these psychedelic trance nights knows what I'm talking about. Simon obviously understood this at one point, though his later work deviates from it a lot

It's no accident that a totally sober individual can put some headphones on and close their eyes and be taken on a little pseudo drug trip with this kind of music. It's engineered specifically to do this and Simon was a pioneer of this technique. Want to somehow describe a LSD or shroom experience to someone who hasn't?... play some Hallucinogen for them.

This is another deviation of new psytrance from old... the new stuff sounds good while high, the old stuff WAS being high.

Idk what kind of "new" stuff you are listening to, but if you ever hit up ektoplazm some the latest psy tracks are insane. Artists are innovating, and new genres are being formed.

To me Hallucinogen tracks are pretty good, but its like stuck between goa and psy. If I want Goa I will go listen to Astral Projection/SFX. If I want psy I will go listen to Juno Reactor, Psykovsky, Oldschool Infected Musrhoom, GMS, 1200 mics etc etc. Not saying Hallucinogen isnt good.
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #66
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80SR ➑️
Idk what kind of "new" stuff you are listening to, but if you ever hit up ektoplazm some the latest psy tracks are insane. Artists are innovating, and new genres are being formed.
I listen to Ektoplazm all the time and keep up with their releases. Every now and then there's something interesting, but more often than not I'm not as blown away as I am with older stuff. Not saying the new stuff isn't good. Perhaps I've become cynical and old fashioned. It happens to the best of us.

One thing I notice is that folks don't jam and rock out like they used to. Simon ****ing shredded on those synths, with an emphasis on leads and melody. Stuff I hear on Ektoplazm is usually very safe and boilerplate with their compositions without a lot of straight-up wicked playing.
Old 26th September 2012
  #67
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🎧 5 years
Anyone going to the Twistival Nov 3rd in London?
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umptanum ➑️
Stuff I hear on Ektoplazm is usually very safe and boilerplate with their compositions without a lot of straight-up wicked playing.
You know, now that I think about it you are correct. There really isnt that blast of mindboggling synthlead and melodies like their used to be. I try to be melodic in my tracks without being cheesy, and alot of the time I get this pseudo post-israelitrance type of thing.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #69
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🎧 5 years
I'd agree completely about Ektoplazm. Some of the forest that comes from there isn't bad, but in general the music is dire. Not dire in a bad way, but dire in a way that makes me wonder what people are trying to achieve by releasing this music. There is so much generic psytrance out there (and a lot of it on Ektoplazm) that it literally has crossed my mind that there may well be 2 psytrance tracks made by completely different unconnected producers that happen to sound exactly the same. That's how much generic stuff is out there - we seriously might approach that doppelganger moment in the near future if it hasn't happened already. I'm sure the same could be said for Progressive/Tech house too, or even dubstep...but there is only so much time I will spend looking into similar sounding music before it borders on masochism.

That being said, Ektoplazm itself is a brilliant site; well made and provides a really good professional outlet for free music. It's just a shame the user submitted content isn't up to much and of course I don't blame Basilisk for turning down submissions.

I do feel sorry for whoever has to write the descriptions though, I think I would have thrown my keyboard into the air and screamed "WHY MUST I LIVE A LIE?" to the heavens before long. But the same could be said for any track descriptions on mp3 websites. I'm sure I've literally seen the descriptions for tracks on TrackItDown go from upbeat and enthusiastic in the morning to very short and simple as the hours pass and more MP3's are uploaded, you can practically pinpoint where the depression sets in for that day.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #70
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🎧 10 years
Since this is a Simon love thread, I figure I should show the SH-101 I have that he "pimped" when he borrowed it for a live show. Also signed by Frank E of Koxbox from the same show.



I love the "I'm a Freq" thing he did to the filter.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #71
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainball ➑️
I'd agree completely about Ektoplazm. Some of the forest that comes from there isn't bad, but in general the music is dire. Not dire in a bad way, but dire in a way that makes me wonder what people are trying to achieve by releasing this music. There is so much generic psytrance out there (and a lot of it on Ektoplazm) that it literally has crossed my mind that there may well be 2 psytrance tracks made by completely different unconnected producers that happen to sound exactly the same. That's how much generic stuff is out there - we seriously might approach that doppelganger moment in the near future if it hasn't happened already. I'm sure the same could be said for Progressive/Tech house too, or even dubstep...but there is only so much time I will spend looking into similar sounding music before it borders on masochism.

That being said, Ektoplazm itself is a brilliant site; well made and provides a really good professional outlet for free music. It's just a shame the user submitted content isn't up to much and of course I don't blame Basilisk for turning down submissions.

I do feel sorry for whoever has to write the descriptions though, I think I would have thrown my keyboard into the air and screamed "WHY MUST I LIVE A LIE?" to the heavens before long. But the same could be said for any track descriptions on mp3 websites. I'm sure I've literally seen the descriptions for tracks on TrackItDown go from upbeat and enthusiastic in the morning to very short and simple as the hours pass and more MP3's are uploaded, you can practically pinpoint where the depression sets in for that day.
I liked the latest Electrocado albumn, and the lastest Sinewinder albumn. You cannot tell me those are dull, they arent "Fullon" but sub genres. I agree that the fullon/twilight and even the darkpsy genres are kind of stale lately. Although in the psycore department cindervomit has been doing crazy stuff. And Cybernetika released a DnB albumn that was good. Just gotta do some searching for the good stuff
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #72
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by umptanum ➑️
Since this is a Simon love thread, I figure I should show the SH-101 I have that he "pimped" when he borrowed it for a live show. Also signed by Frank E of Koxbox from the same show.



I love the "I'm a Freq" thing he did to the filter.
That is amazing!, i never really understood why did he let hallucinogen die, seems to me like a lot of people ask him about hallucinogen and i always notice like he gets a bit annoyed or like he doesnt want anything else to do with it... dont know, its just my perception. Seems like he only plays his tunes every now and then at some parties, I just wish he could do more hallucinogen songs.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #73
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80SR ➑️
I liked the latest Electrocado albumn, and the lastest Sinewinder albumn. You cannot tell me those are dull, they arent "Fullon" but sub genres. I agree that the fullon/twilight and even the darkpsy genres are kind of stale lately. Although in the psycore department cindervomit has been doing crazy stuff. And Cybernetika released a DnB albumn that was good. Just gotta do some searching for the good stuff
I thought much like all Electrocado albums, it wasn't that great. It's just dubstep/electro with some psy effects thrown in for good measure. For the past 3 years ago electronic music has had a fetish for thick, wobbly bass and I have had more than my fill of it.

Cybernetika's DnB album was pretty much standard DnB with Psy, spacey effects thrown in and wasn't much more psychedelic than your average Liquid/Dark DnB especially if you've looked into the new hardcore breaks scene that emerged from a subgenre called 'Hardscape' a few years ago.

Some of the psycore on there has been pretty good, but very standard within the realm of psycore. I do actively listen to every single thing that gets released on Ektoplazm and check it every day, I've heard the whole back catalog too.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #74
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
That is amazing!, i never really understood why did he let hallucinogen die, seems to me like a lot of people ask him about hallucinogen and i always notice like he gets a bit annoyed or like he doesnt want anything else to do with it... dont know, its just my perception. Seems like he only plays his tunes every now and then at some parties, I just wish he could do more hallucinogen songs.
I think he is just enjoying his quasi-rockstar status.

Plus that old scene is dead and buried along with the drug that spawned it... down in an abandoned nuclear missile silo in Kansas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard

And I'm sure making those old tunes was very, very challenging and there's not a lot of motivation to go the route again when you get the same (or more) adoration from the chicks just by DJ'n.
Old 27th September 2012
  #75
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Does anyone know how his workflow is, in later days? He still seems to use that Mackie though! It must be good
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umptanum ➑️
I think he is just enjoying his quasi-rockstar status.

Plus that old scene is dead and buried along with the drug that spawned it... down in an abandoned nuclear missile silo in Kansas.

William Leonard Pickard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I'm sure making those old tunes was very, very challenging and there's not a lot of motivation to go the route again when you get the same (or more) adoration from the chicks just by DJ'n.
He quit on Hallucinogen long before the scene died, I actually remember back in the day when I was part of the scene, I used to wonder about the reason as to why he would quit on Hallucinogen.

I read in an interview that actually his first songs like LSD were his first songs and they were made as an experiment with synths and such, so I guess this is not guy which finds challenge on doing those songs. Although I'll agree on the lack of motivation, I think that psytrance for him was a "phase" but his true passion is psychedelic ambient or what ever shpongle is these days, back in those days it was psy-ambient, today its more of a freak show...
Old 27th September 2012
  #77
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Shpongle has a lot of psytrance elements still, it drives dancefloors nuts all around the globe.

Younger brother in the other hand is now a full rock band.

He has given some clues about working slowly on a third Hallucinogen album, maybe some day in the future.

But as said here, he is still loved by hippies, and IMHo for a good reason.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #78
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainball ➑️
I thought much like all Electrocado albums, it wasn't that great. It's just dubstep/electro with some psy effects thrown in for good measure. For the past 3 years ago electronic music has had a fetish for thick, wobbly bass and I have had more than my fill of it.

Cybernetika's DnB album was pretty much standard DnB with Psy, spacey effects thrown in and wasn't much more psychedelic than your average Liquid/Dark DnB especially if you've looked into the new hardcore breaks scene that emerged from a subgenre called 'Hardscape' a few years ago.

Some of the psycore on there has been pretty good, but very standard within the realm of psycore. I do actively listen to every single thing that gets released on Ektoplazm and check it every day, I've heard the whole back catalog too.
You keep calling things standard, but I really think you are just being overly negative. You do realize psytrance is a rolling bassline with psy effects thrown in for good measure right? You cant just simplify things like that. I understand you dont like some of the stuff, but to say it is "standard" is just ridiculous. It really seems like you are talking down on it just beacuse it isnt the "oldschool" psy you like.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #79
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80SR ➑️
You keep calling things standard, but I really think you are just being overly negative. You do realize psytrance is a rolling bassline with psy effects thrown in for good measure right? You cant just simplify things like that. I understand you dont like some of the stuff, but to say it is "standard" is just ridiculous. It really seems like you are talking down on it just beacuse it isnt the "oldschool" psy you like.
No, psychedelic trance is much more than a few musical elements that characterise a large majority of it; a lie is a lie no matter how many people say it is true. You accuse me of simplifying things, but that's exactly what you're doing. Genres of music and ESPECIALLY not the psychedelic trance genre are not characterized by particular instruments, sounds or formulas. Psytrance is Psychedelic Trance, not 4x4 simplex club music. There is nothing psychedelic about the DJ intro -> same compressed kick and rolling bassline -> breakdown -> rinse & repeat -> DJ outro regimental approach to making music.

You are thinking about things with a 1 track mind from a producer's point of view, you are not thinking of the stylistic roots and origin of the music which is much more important and the very reason why so many detest modern 'Psytrance' (Which isn't psychedelic and it isn't trance-like). By randomly switching up a couple of elements and putting a breakdown in a different place, you do not make something innovative or unique. If that is the extent of your musical proficiency then I fear the worst.

And for your information there is plenty of modern psychedelic trance I enjoy, I have just listened to enough music to know when something is or isn't standard and I can tell you now that the 'Psytrance' you speak of is a dead horse that was flogged way beyond comedic extremeties a good few years ago. But I do appreciate you playing the 'jaded' card, it's always amusing to hear people tell me I'm stuck in the past when I was actually too young to even walk when old school Goa Trance was at its peak. I just happen to know the difference between good psychedelic music born from a period well versed with the psychedelic experience itself compared to tens of thousands of similar-sounding tracks all copying a handful of artists and innovating only within the realms of what will fit inside the average DJ's set.
Old 28th September 2012
  #80
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🎧 10 years
Goa Gil does produce music. Project name is The Nommos. It's Gil and Ariane, and the music is generally brutally hard high-bpm darkish psy... definitely not old-time goa melodies.

My favorite melodic psy producer right now is probably Jorge Uema.
His projects include Pragmatix, Heterogenesis (with another guy) and Men 2 Deep (with another other guy).

It's still more psy than goa, but it's emotive, melodic, fresh, and very danceable...highly recommended.


here's a night time psy set I played at a big outdoor fest last weekend... it's not Goa. It is however a storming set by a real psychonaut...
Sensoma - Equinox 2012 open-air psytrance festival, 11:30pm-1am - Mixcrate

Old 28th September 2012
  #81
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🎧 10 years
Absolutely love Hallucinogen/Shpongle, really anything Posford touches is bound to be dripping with acid's personality. I love his production. No it's not super clean ultra hi-fi club stuff, it's organic and mushy and has wonderful nuances. It's the complete opposite of this super sterile boring synth music we have today. Posford lets the synthesizers actually breathe and speak. I hope he never stops making music.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #82
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainball ➑️
No, psychedelic trance is much more than a few musical elements that characterise a large majority of it; a lie is a lie no matter how many people say it is true. You accuse me of simplifying things, but that's exactly what you're doing. Genres of music and ESPECIALLY not the psychedelic trance genre are not characterized by particular instruments, sounds or formulas. Psytrance is Psychedelic Trance, not 4x4 simplex club music. There is nothing psychedelic about the DJ intro -> same compressed kick and rolling bassline -> breakdown -> rinse & repeat -> DJ outro regimental approach to making music.

You are thinking about things with a 1 track mind from a producer's point of view, you are not thinking of the stylistic roots and origin of the music which is much more important and the very reason why so many detest modern 'Psytrance' (Which isn't psychedelic and it isn't trance-like). By randomly switching up a couple of elements and putting a breakdown in a different place, you do not make something innovative or unique. If that is the extent of your musical proficiency then I fear the worst.

And for your information there is plenty of modern psychedelic trance I enjoy, I have just listened to enough music to know when something is or isn't standard and I can tell you now that the 'Psytrance' you speak of is a dead horse that was flogged way beyond comedic extremeties a good few years ago. But I do appreciate you playing the 'jaded' card, it's always amusing to hear people tell me I'm stuck in the past when I was actually too young to even walk when old school Goa Trance was at its peak. I just happen to know the difference between good psychedelic music born from a period well versed with the psychedelic experience itself compared to tens of thousands of similar-sounding tracks all copying a handful of artists and innovating only within the realms of what will fit inside the average DJ's set.
I never said that it was simple club music? You mistook my example of how one could simplify most of the psy genre. Your post reeks of pretentious, which is something that the psytrance "movement" is against. You are also implying, once again, that the new stuff is just **** out with no thought or "psychedelic" substance. Most of hallucinogens tracks, to my ears, sound simplistic compared to newer psy. Also, most of your hate seems to be directed towards the israeli trance which I would agree is generic intro > basic 101 stuff > some rolling bass > breakdown > buildup > end.

In all honestly it really does seem like you are upset. I dont want to start problems, and it seems like we both have listened to more psy then we would have liked to. It just seems you are carpet bombing everything past a certain time period.


If you really want to complain about something, look at the beatport "psytrance" top10 at the moment
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #83
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🎧 10 years
A lot of today's psytrance is dark. It's drowning in testosterone. It's aggressive and in your face. Lots of adolescent male energy. Which is fine and obviously there's a crowd that enjoys it for what it is.

But if I'm going to ingest some psychedelic vegetables, that's not the kind of energy I'd like to hang out with. Just my personal preference. I'd rather hang out with music that's fun, uplifting, strange-ly beautiful, complex, weird, melodic, flowing and most importantly... chicks gotta wanna dance to it.

Chicks love Simon's music... and that's who he's making music for.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson ➑️
you have to go through the nausea to get to the high, and it is worth it...All drugs are poison, at least Shrooms are honest about it.
They are illegal in most of the world and I am not suggesting anyone do anything that would be criminal, but I can't let this "poison" comment stand. It isn't uncommon to experience the feeling of having being poisoned, but it is entirely avoidable by observing the correct diet for a week or so beforehand - vegetarian with a day or more of fasting if possible.

Wait, what forum is this again? Oh yeah, Hallucinogen was good but "In Dub" is pretty much the greatest thing ever, I want to see that music live. Simon Postford solo (Shpongletron) was mad boring.
Old 28th September 2012
  #85
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🎧 10 years
I was a huge fan, now I just listen and enjoy it for what it is...The project i am in currently got to open for Shpongle on his Shpongletron experience tour in Buffalo. I was a little upset that Simon didn't actually do anything inside of his elaborate set-up, and was less impressed with his overall attitude at the end of the night.

Oh well, I got my record signed, and got to open for one of my favorite studio producers.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #86
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80SR ➑️
I never said that it was simple club music? You mistook my example of how one could simplify most of the psy genre. Your post reeks of pretentious, which is something that the psytrance "movement" is against. You are also implying, once again, that the new stuff is just **** out with no thought or "psychedelic" substance. Most of hallucinogens tracks, to my ears, sound simplistic compared to newer psy. Also, most of your hate seems to be directed towards the israeli trance which I would agree is generic intro > basic 101 stuff > some rolling bass > breakdown > buildup > end.

In all honestly it really does seem like you are upset. I dont want to start problems, and it seems like we both have listened to more psy then we would have liked to. It just seems you are carpet bombing everything past a certain time period.


If you really want to complain about something, look at the beatport "psytrance" top10 at the moment
All that ad hominem.

Go and show me an example of some innovative psytrance released in the past month or so, then I might take you seriously.

You're completely missing the point though, this isn't about simple vs complex. This is about vibe, emotion...raw psychedelia. Go to Goa and drop 12 hits of quality LSD, then you can finally begin to understand the music. It's not about how complex the tracks are (Though I would say melodies layered upon melodies upon melodies are a lot more complex than laser kicks and a few samples from Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas).

Why are you even interested in music if you cannot understand the feeling and emotion behind it? That might work for a genre born out of someone pissing around in Ableton but it doesn't make any sense for Psychedelic Trance.

Listen to some Neo-goa (Go for Suntrip records for the highest quality neo goa), musically it sounds almost exactly the same and is comprised of the same elements as old Goa trance, yet it is soulless and over-polished to match the production standards of modern dance music. This is the problem.

There is no psychedelic feeling in the new goa trance, it's just the sum of parts that makes up the goa genre - but with none of that raw feeling of psychedelia behind it. It works well on paper, but sounds cliche and cheesy in practice.

This is why Above and Beyond/Anjunabeats etc. 'Trance' will never actually be Trance music, there is nothing trance-like about stopping the music every few minutes to have a woman singing about love while some abrasive electro saw leads play a few chords before dropping into a weak kick and sidechained bass at 130bpm.

People who make trance need to get right back to their roots, playing with effects and technology is a small piece of the puzzle. Real trance is not something that can be replicated by simply copying the musical elements and expecting to get the same result, that's like covering a song but singing it in monotone and expecting it to sound the same. This applies to house too and a number of other genres and is the reason why so much of it sounds boring and is a flatlining experience at a rave or a party.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #87
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainball ➑️
Go and show me an example of some innovative psytrance released in the past month or so, then I might take you seriously.
Have you heard the new albums by EVP or Southwild? Dunno about "innovative" but I found them to stand out in terms of being actually psychedelic as opposed to "psy-lite" or soulless/cookie-cutter stuff... there are a couple tracks off each release in the set I posted earlier.

In terms of innovation, I think Brujo's Bowl has done some pretty innovative stuff in the 180BPM psy-bassmusic category... it's not just dubstep wobbles with psy tweaks grafted on, it's a coherent musical statement using aspects of these forms. Worth a listen maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainball ➑️
Go to Goa and drop 12 hits of quality LSD
it's on my bucket list...
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #88
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umptanum's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This is the theory that another psytrance buddy and I have had for a while now... perhaps today's producers don't have deep psychedelic experiences to draw upon before creating their music. They listen to older tracks and sorta kinda get the formula right, but they certainly aren't constructing a sonic landscape that any neo-shaman would want to explore. Everything sounds very wannabe-ish, or maybe it's all turned to cocaine and meth and anti-depressants. I dunno, I haven't been to a all-nighter in a long time and I don't know what the youth are tweaking on in celebration.

The simple fact is that psychedelic trance GLORIFIED hallucinogenic drug use. What was Simon's handle again? People can get righteous and say drugs are bad or dumb or that you don't need them to have a good time, but this was absolutely NOT a creed of the psychedelic trance dance scene. You went out in nature with a big sound system, tripped balls, and danced all night with a crowd of people doing the same... and the music facilitated the experience. The music didn't "break", it didn't drop, the DJ didn't show off and pump his fists in the air expecting the crowd to holler... instead everyone was deep into their tribal trance and grooving on everyone else and dancing. It was a mass meditation that took everyone back to their primal roots. The music had a very specific point to its creation and use.

I wander around Burning Man and the psytrance tents are all empty and dark with just a handful of dudes shuffling around to nasty evil sounds. You may say that the new stuff is better and we're old fashioned, but are people (especially girls) really partying to the new stuff like we used to 15 years ago? Are psytrance producers using the same drugs we were? My theory is that they aren't and the music suffers accordingly.

Like I said, I've been out of the dance scene for a while so I can't speak to the larger festivals like BOOM or what's going on in S. America, so I may be making a lot of gross generalizations here.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #89
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by controlvoltage ➑️
Have you heard the new albums by EVP or Southwild? Dunno about "innovative" but I found them to stand out in terms of being actually psychedelic as opposed to "psy-lite" or soulless/cookie-cutter stuff... there are a couple tracks off each release in the set I posted earlier.

In terms of innovation, I think Brujo's Bowl has done some pretty innovative stuff in the 180BPM psy-bassmusic category... it's not just dubstep wobbles with psy tweaks grafted on, it's a coherent musical statement using aspects of these forms. Worth a listen maybe.



it's on my bucket list...
Heard Brujo's Bowl, I thought Healing With Sound (The track from the album) was a nice chillout dubstep track, but it wasn't anything that particularly moved me, just a chilled out dubstep track that might be nice to listen to every now and again, and when I say Dubstep I mean ACTUAL Dubstep that resembles Dub and not Brostep with the big electro drops.

180Bpm...Don't you mean 80bpm? 180bpm would me more like Psycore lol.

I heard similar stuff from Jellybass in 2006 when I was first getting into electronic music, it was sub-bass experimental music. Since then people have just done the same thing over and over and I've heard it all before. The thing about Brujo's Bowl is that while it might be technically interesting it is characteristically lacking, it doesn't really bring to mind any imagery or have much emotion behind it, I don't really understand what kind of 'statement' it's trying to make. If Goa Trance is LSD, Psy Dub is more like smoking a joint.

Hadn't heard Southwild or EVP, just listened to Southwild now - to be honest there isn't much to differentiate it from anything else I've heard. Maybe it borrows a little bit more from Darkpsy but the kick is too pokey and bullying to really be trancelike, it's more like hard dance darkpsy. I'm not saying it can't be good but it doesn't strike me as particularly psychedelic, it doesn't really have a vibe or a soul; just a kick, a bass and effects/samples everywhere. You could argue that Forest Psy is the same, and a lot of it is, but there are also a lot of truely psychedelic tracks that are a perfect musical representation of the psychedelic forest experience.

EVP...sounds very much the same as Southwild maybe leaning even more towards Darkpsy but still has the similar problem that I don't really feel like the music is taking me away anywhere, just blasting me with effects until I'm confused.

I don't think that same old psy laser kick really attributes to psychedelic music unless it's very, very understated. Once again, to use a drug comparison, it's MDMA vs. LSD. One moves your body, the other one moves your mind. I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive but that is the main difference and IMO why people still prefer old Hallucinogen tracks to this day. Sure it's easy to blame it on nostalgia because it was in the past, but I think if you were to make something as raw and as psychedelic as old Goa trance today without making it sound over-processed people would still love it, it's just that nothing has hit that sweet spot yet.

IMO it's down to a lack of creativity, too much tweaking to make things sound perfect in the post production and people only listening to their own genres of music and not venturing outside. I see this in so many genres of electronic music that it's unreal. When Simon Postford was making Hallucinogen tracks he was probably listening to Jean Michelle Jarre, Acid House, Baleric chill out, World Music plus anything they played at Goa parties with a healthy dose of psychedelic inspiration from various drugs. If you take the neo-goa artists, most of them have probably listed to Hallucinogen, Astral Projection, MWNN and modern psytrance some of them probably only going to parties to stand at the sidelines watching a single producer and not making full contact with the music like the people on the dancefloor.

Rant over, I think music in general has fallen too far into a copy-culture syndrome and that's probably why Postford quickly moved on from Goa to Shpongle. Now that Shpongle have inadvertently started a 'Psychill' movement full of people wanting to sound like, well...Shpongle he'll probably move on again soon to another project.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
gremlin moon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Music meant for psychedelics, regardless of genre, is the most difficult to make because it has to unwaveringly embody two major qualities.

1. Pure emotional acceptance of the psychedelic state. The music must convey the spirit of "keep going deeper, keep going further, surrender, this experience is meant to be happening, it is okay if it is not comfortable, the music will carry you through.

2. It has to work on a visual level. The mind must find a sonic mandala to manifest itself through. This is a very technical place.

If an individual is truly capable of both then they still need to be able to merge them in the studio or playing live. It is such a tough balance that in one way it is amazing that there is a psychedelic thread running through music at all.

I tend to listen to all psychedelic music that embodies those two qualities whether it is the Grateful Dead or FSOL or Shpongle or Man With No Name. . .
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