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raw industrial techno sound design
Old 5th January 2017
  #1
raw industrial techno sound design

Dear Gearslutz,

I would like to make some industrial raw techno with ableton.

Could you recommend me any plugin that would be great ?

I have be recommend "factory" synth from sugar bytes what do you think about that ?

Also i'm interested about trying something analogue to make tose noise, do you have any idea where to start by ?

Kind of sound i would like to create : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU4UgHX_QBY

Would be really helpfull,

best regards,

dimitri
Old 5th January 2017
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Praxisaxis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Why does everyone think plugins solve everything these days?

Trent Reznor apparently used to go around recording drums in bathrooms and door slams, etc, etc. If you want grim, mechanical, factoryish, slams, creaks and groans, the best way, in my opinion, is to get a little handheld audio recorder and go find these sounds in the world. People have been doing this for decades after all. Mix some of this in with your drum stuff. Job done .

Check out a documentary about Amon Tobin called "Foley Room."

[edit: Ah, I didn't see the word Techno. That's a bit different from what I'm suggesting here.]
Old 5th January 2017
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dim tri ➑️
Dear Gearslutz,

I would like to make some industrial raw techno with ableton.

Could you recommend me any plugin that would be great ?

I have be recommend "factory" synth from sugar bytes what do you think about that ?

Also i'm interested about trying something analogue to make tose noise, do you have any idea where to start by ?

Kind of sound i would like to create : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU4UgHX_QBY

Would be really helpfull,

best regards,

dimitri
Do you have Ableton Standard or Suite? If it's Suite, you already have Operator and Tension (as well as Corpus) which are ideal for synthesising those metallic sounds. Analogue isn't going to be that much use other than for basses and kicks.

Factory has physical modelling oscillators in it and so does lend itself to those kinds of sounds but if you have Ableton Suite, you have access to a good number of sounds sources already. If it's Standard, you can still get busy with Simpler and the foley noises that Praxisaxis suggests.
Old 5th January 2017
  #4
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Mass Appeal

https://soundcloud.com/the-army-we-have/mass-appeal

Hey, This isn't like your example, but I did it with Ableton,
and I call it industrial, even if I'm wrong.

You should do what the guy says above, mess with the synths
but also, take any snare or bass or any sound repeating, solo it,
and dump all kinds of effects on it and
play with them. Resonator, saturator, auto-filter, delays,
flanger, EQ, etc. Don't be reluctant to make a mess.
Use more than one EQ, use more than one compressor,
Do something with the EQ, put a few more of the effects
mentioned above after it, then another EQ, and do something
different with that.
Turn some effects on and off as you play it over and over.
I did this with this song, and while it's really an awful mix,
it does have things I'm really happy with, but most of them
are pretty buried because I did way too much.
Once you get a good unique sound, delete the ones
you have turned off, and save the chain.
Isolate and create. Really interesting things can happen,
like some grain delay that makes something sound like
a garbage can full of bees, but then another EQ after that
that ridiculously raises the mids. Put the dials on a flanger
way into outer space, then lower the highs after that with
another EQ. Whatever achieves the sound you're after.
And pull the effects back and forth in front and behind
each other. Ableton's engine is really effect friendly.
Play with the wet/dry buttons as well. But I hardly ever
put reverbs on tracks, because I just send the track through the
reverb a little bit. And change the reverbs to high quality of course,
no matter what you do with them. And change compressors to
oversampling. And watch your gains on your EQs, keep them
out of the red. Fun with too many effects is fun, and some
of the distortion that happens, but frequency distortion is
too unwieldy.

If you want some of my awful effects chains I'd
be glad to send them. If you have the suite.
Old 5th January 2017
  #5
Deleted cda76ca
Guest
I think you'd get some good results taking a standard VA plugin and a standard sampler plugin (even the free sfz and some free soundfonts) and then subjecting these samples to crazy processing.

Put the reverb before the distortion, bit crush stuff, ring modulation, more distortion.

The industrial ethos is really built on taking standard pieces of machinery or studio equipment and mis-using them.

Did I mention distortion?
Old 5th January 2017
  #6
Deleted cda76ca
Guest
Oh yeah, izotope trash is the plugin you want by the way, even the most horrendous midi piano sound will be golden through that

I've been mangling a proteus the last 2 days XD
Old 5th January 2017
  #7
Deleted cda76ca
Guest
On another thought you could try:

DAW built in Synth with 303 like or bass sound through izotope trash.
The free Emulator X synth through izotope trash for other sounds. The delay on is nice for subtler stuff.
909 samples again through trash for your beats, this time using the EQs to bring the thud.

And with trash only being Β£29 it's quite accessible.
Old 5th January 2017
  #8
Deleted cda76ca
Guest
For harder basses and plucks, I recommend an FM synth, like the free VOPM, layered with your VA synth for bottom end.

I'll keep adding to the thread when I remember stuff.
Old 5th January 2017
  #9
Thank you very much for all your answers guys !

So first yes I have Ableton live suite, and few plug in. I will try to mess up with all the effects and try things.


Praxisaxis : good idea thanks !

ZangTumblyTumble : i'll try with operator, but i'm a noob right now haha i don't really understand it.

General TAWH : With pleasure for the effect chain, how would you like to send them ?

xanderbeanz : thank you very much for answer, i just didn't understood the last things about DAW built in Synth with 303 like or bass sound through izotope trash.
And what is a VA plug in please ? sorry i'm still a real beginner in that world ^^

Anyway thanks for your answer it give me confidence back and sorry for my english and maybe misscomprehension i'm not english fluent speaker

Best,

dim
Old 5th January 2017
  #10
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
PM me email and I'll dig them out and send them.
Old 5th January 2017
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Software has already been covered, but old school industrial was all about using cheep/disposable/repurposed things to make something musical so for hardware the volca's, especially the sample, kick, and FM are great and can be made to sound very industrial.

I would also recommend the PO-12, PO-14, and especially PO-24 from teenage engineering since you can sync them from the volca's.

Pick like three of those, get an effects pedal or two to mangle the sounds, a mixer or even a 4 track tape recorder if you want to get totally away from using a computer, and you'll have a full setup for around the price of what you would pay for a single analog synth.

e: If you just want one piece of hardware the electribe 2 sampler would be hard to beat.
Old 5th January 2017
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Sample and misuse everything, and re-sample it again.

Sample real sounds (especially non musical ones) to help you get out of the box.

Seriously, no reason to buy anything...can get away with any DAWs basic sampler, rompler/synth, and effects...also lots of free effects that are useful. Don't have a guitar? Play some power chords with the clarinet patch into a "rectifier" preset. Sample that. Play that. Etc


I personally don't really think of "industrial" as lots of synths or guitars and spooky vocals necessarily, it was more about the misuse of samplers/other technology of the era, as well as unconventional tones. A good analogy is old school hip hop, a lot of folks with limited technical skills and money using and misusing whatever they can get their hands on, such as the trash tr808s you could buy at pawn shops and sampling whatever..etc...
Old 5th January 2017
  #13
Lives for gear
 
redloheb's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Agree with what kslight said.
Sample more, distort more, compress better. Techno and Industrial are experimental genres. Today standard DAW has all tools you need.
Old 5th January 2017
  #14
Lives for gear
 
matia's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
move to Oakland.
Old 6th January 2017
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Good thread that I found interesting. Agree with many of these tips, including starting with custom samples and moving from there. Good stuff.
Old 6th January 2017 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gringostar ➑️
... so for hardware the volca's, especially the sample, kick, and FM are great and can be made to sound very industrial.

I would also recommend the PO-12, PO-14, and especially PO-24 from teenage engineering since you can sync them from the volca's.

Pick like three of those, get an effects pedal or two to mangle the sounds, a mixer or even a 4 track tape recorder if you want to get totally away from using a computer, and you'll have a full setup for around the price of what you would pay for a single analog synth.

e: If you just want one piece of hardware the electribe 2 sampler would be hard to beat.
man, he doesn't need ANY of this junk.
Old 6th January 2017 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
rids's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by matia ➑️
move to Oakland.
Old 6th January 2017
  #18
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
SAMPLES... or I mean... SAMPLING!
that's the answer

soft or hard doesn't matter.. splitting hairs.. whatever makes you feel better...
Old 6th January 2017 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
matia's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rids ➑️
Was just being cheeky. Oakland has a music scene pretty pronounced for this sound.

Honestly get an analog Rytm. You can really aggressively process both the synthesis and sample engines and it has a very distinct overdrive per part.
Old 10th January 2017
  #20
Ok i just read the news answers, thank you very much !!

I think i will start with looking for good sample then test lot of effects and sample on it.

And then probably go for some hardware cause i really want to go away from the computer.

Anyway great answers really helpfull and if anyone has anything else to add feel free !!

Best regards,

dim
Old 10th January 2017 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Your example, Ansome, uses a lot of hardware and modular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhLj24b9yGs

Distorted sounds is one of the hardest things to get right with software and pretty effortless with hardware.
I would get a flexible (digital) drum machine and a bunch of cheap analog guitar pedals to experiment with.
Old 11th January 2017
  #22
Lives for gear
 
void23's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I should know better than to reply to a thread like this, but here goes ... Also, I'm not a fan of plugins. IMHO, nothing beats having a device with a physical controls and UI designed to create and mangle sound. Hell, I've even got a Push 2 that I'm barely using right now because it just doesn't resonate with me.

Now, if you want that "old school" industrial sound, get yourself an Emax or S950 (I was an Emax guy) and sample the hell out of everything; other CD's, incidental sounds from VHS tapes, etc. Add a cheap, non-MIDI analog like a Yamaha CS-5, Minimoog, or Prophet-5 (good luck on that those last two now days) that you sample and process them for bass tones. With that, you've got what most of us without huge contracts did back in the day. Throw in an Alesis D4 or Roland R8, and later on, the Procussion and you've got your drum sounds. Juno's and Korg Poly's were also used quite a bit back then, mainly because they were dated and cheap. If you had money leftover, there was the Wavestation, and if not, a TX-81Z. Those with backing and money, upgraded to a rack of S1000's and bought cool toys like ARP 2600's or MIDI kits for their Moogs.

Bottom line is that industrial music back in the day was a lot like punk, a bunch of broke people using cheap and usually second-hand gear to make music and sometimes, great music.

If I were to pick out some modern gear that resonates with me and that old school sound, and not modular based since I'm now biased that way, I'd go with a couple of Electron's; the Rytm and the Octatrack. Unfortunately, both are a bit of a PITA to pick up and learn initially, but they're samplers / sample playback boxes so the sky is the limit tone-wise. For bass, I'd go with a Sub37 hands down (there's your example of a great UI) I haven't played with many of the new Poly's lately, but I've had a Nord since my touring days and would either go with one of their recent VA's (once again, for the UI) or a Blofeld, if you have the patience to program it, but not much better than a plugin.
Old 11th January 2017
  #23
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
TX81Z.
That's a blast from the past.
Old 11th January 2017 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 ➑️
Bottom line is that industrial music back in the day was a lot like punk, a bunch of broke people using cheap and usually second-hand gear to make music and sometimes, great music.
This. So much.

Get a sampler and go nuts. The thing about sound design (for industrial or anything else) is that it's all about creating something unique out of something else.

Knock the salt shaker off the table? record it and make a snare. Squeaky wheel? Make it an ambient sound bed. Found sounds become percussion loops. Mom calling you for dinner becomes demons being tortured.
Old 11th January 2017
  #25
Lives for gear
 
major7th's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
SQ8L
Old 16th January 2017 | Show parent
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by plastic_ ➑️
Your example, Ansome, uses a lot of hardware and modular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhLj24b9yGs

Distorted sounds is one of the hardest things to get right with software and pretty effortless with hardware.
I would get a flexible (digital) drum machine and a bunch of cheap analog guitar pedals to experiment with.
Yes this is exactly the style i would like to reach. I love Ansome !

So what do you recommend is a digital drum machine ( i have some 909 sample) and then try them with some analogue effects pedal ? Do you have some to recommend ? You do connect the effects to computer by midi ?
Old 16th January 2017
  #27
By the way, you all recommend sampling. Do you mean to do it with a digital sampler or analog or no matter ? If no matter is the sampler of ableton ok ? Anywa it's more baout what you put in the sampler right ?

I'll stick a bit with my computer but when i had analyse all the hardware you propose and be sure what to buy i'll go for hardware.

thanks for all the asnwers and feel free to add other ones peace
Old 16th January 2017 | Show parent
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by void23 ➑️
I should know better than to reply to a thread like this, but here goes ... Also, I'm not a fan of plugins. IMHO, nothing beats having a device with a physical controls and UI designed to create and mangle sound. Hell, I've even got a Push 2 that I'm barely using right now because it just doesn't resonate with me.

Now, if you want that "old school" industrial sound, get yourself an Emax or S950 (I was an Emax guy) and sample the hell out of everything; other CD's, incidental sounds from VHS tapes, etc. Add a cheap, non-MIDI analog like a Yamaha CS-5, Minimoog, or Prophet-5 (good luck on that those last two now days) that you sample and process them for bass tones. With that, you've got what most of us without huge contracts did back in the day. Throw in an Alesis D4 or Roland R8, and later on, the Procussion and you've got your drum sounds. Juno's and Korg Poly's were also used quite a bit back then, mainly because they were dated and cheap. If you had money leftover, there was the Wavestation, and if not, a TX-81Z. Those with backing and money, upgraded to a rack of S1000's and bought cool toys like ARP 2600's or MIDI kits for their Moogs.

Bottom line is that industrial music back in the day was a lot like punk, a bunch of broke people using cheap and usually second-hand gear to make music and sometimes, great music.

If I were to pick out some modern gear that resonates with me and that old school sound, and not modular based since I'm now biased that way, I'd go with a couple of Electron's; the Rytm and the Octatrack. Unfortunately, both are a bit of a PITA to pick up and learn initially, but they're samplers / sample playback boxes so the sky is the limit tone-wise. For bass, I'd go with a Sub37 hands down (there's your example of a great UI) I haven't played with many of the new Poly's lately, but I've had a Nord since my touring days and would either go with one of their recent VA's (once again, for the UI) or a Blofeld, if you have the patience to program it, but not much better than a plugin.

Thank you very much for this really nice asnwer, i will check all the machines and try to create a small hardware start with that.
Thanks a lot for taking time to put so many details !
Old 16th January 2017 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem_Sevenn ➑️
Look for cheap gear that you know nothing about. Figure out how to use it without reading the manual.
That seems like a great way to waste money 9 times out of 10.
Old 16th January 2017
  #30
Gear Addict
 
konputa's Avatar
 
A Kurzweil K2xxx and a guitar multi effects processor would also cover this sound perfectly. In fact, you probably wouldn't need the processor if you're willing to spend a little time with VAST.
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