Quantcast
State of the Studio - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
State of the Studio
Old 20th September 2020
  #1
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
State of the Studio

You know there are times like these when your life comes to cross-roads, a fork in the road where either the weak-willed walk down the road to hell or the courageous and righteous rise up to new heights.

There were times when men were men and created their environment based on their vision and their deep knowledge of the existing resources rather than whine like little wussy crybabies online with their twitchy fingertips.

These are such times.

It is time to TAKE A STAND.

Here is the State of the Studio.

It is Man vs Machine...

It is Pedal to the Metal...

It is Mind Over Matter...

It is unwavering Focus on Goals vs Temptations and Distractions

There will be no music production, no going out, heck NO SALVATION until I forge these machines into what constitutes my vision:

Violence... Speed.. Momentum...

No wait, that’s not it. It’s this:

1. Flexibility,
2. Meta-Modularisation,
3. Ease,
4. Flow,
5. SQ (sound-quality),
6. Sonic Palette,
7. Tight Timing,
8. Innovation,
9. Glory,
10. Beauty.

The Approach:

- Think Building Blocks, Re-usable, Patchable
- Modularise,
- Recycle, Recuperate,
- Buy parts if necessary rather than new gear
- Iterate, minimise time to reach a great setup for composition

It’s time to WAKE UP and smell the Solder!

Because sometimes, just sometimes...

A Man’s Gotta Do What A Man’s Gotta Do.
Attached Thumbnails
State of the Studio-mixertomcat.jpg   State of the Studio-mixerpsu.jpg   State of the Studio-lexicon.jpg   State of the Studio-kurz.jpg   State of the Studio-jx3pmixermasterl.jpg  

State of the Studio-dw8000jx8panmodular.jpg   State of the Studio-polysix.jpg  

Last edited by YashN; 26th September 2020 at 05:47 PM.. Reason: Important Edit to Approach: Iterate
Old 20th September 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
"There were times when men were men and created their environment based on their vision and their deep knowledge of the existing resources rather than whine like little wussy crybabies online with their twitchy fingertips."

Best statement in many, many years of nothingness!
Old 20th September 2020 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
Best statement in many, many years of nothingness!
Coming from you, Italo, I really appreciate it.

Power Users of the World, Unite!
Old 26th September 2020
  #4
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Soundcraft Delta 200 Mixer Mod/Fix

This is a crucial set of mods or fixes for the Soundcraft Delta 200:

- Restoring proper gain staging or levels for the Master Mix module.

- Using proper capacitors well in the circuit.

Prior to the mods, restoration on this particularly well-kept unit meant re-soldering one malfunctioning Group's sockets. Fixed it and then everything worked.

Jim Williams from Audio Upgrades was instrumental in me getting there. He clearly knows his stuff, has many, many years of experience upgrading gear and designing and engineering his own for better SQ - neutrality, transparency, speed, bandwidth, etc...

Over the years, all his clients have been super positive about his mods. Send him your gear.

Why this was important:

This mixer clearly has a design flaw that Jim knew about. This could explain a few things.

Firstly, it looks like SC wanted to memory-hole that particular mixer as the schematics, even the model itself can't be found directly from their website, so it's impossible to find the schematics. Some mentioned the Delta DLX has the same schematics but I found differences, e.g. TL072 instead of 5532 in a section of the Master Module RH PCB.

Secondly, I had noticed that on my amp, I needed to bump up the volume by a good 10-15db to get a similar level to other gear (TV, Computer Audio, etc...)

Now since all the AUX matrix also depends on that gain staging on the Main Mixing module, any effects on the AUX wasn't being heard at a proper level, i.e. wasn't playing at a level where we could really appreciate what a Send to the effects processor was doing. In other words, we weren't hearing the effects processor properly.

These fixes greatly improved the project studio setup, especially since there's a plan to open up various AUXes with effects processor chains for more sonic explorations (@ Italo de angelis knows what it's about ).

Result: SQ is greatly improved by both fixes, now we hear all our gear better, we also hear the Effects Send & Return in the Mix better.

In the pics:

1. Master Mix fixed

2. Temporary Re-Mount of the last Group Module and the Master module for testing. Now you know why most of my gear isn't even screwed shut.

Testing proved a smashing success.

There is more that can be done on the Master Mix, but I'll wait till I am more confident in the changes, one in particular, before doing them.

I am greatly indebted to Jim who has shared a lot of his knowledge and fixes or optimisations over the years. He doesn't have to, but out of pure generosity, he does.

More on what fixing the Studio effects processor entailed later.

Thank Jim.
Attached Thumbnails
State of the Studio-masterrhfixed.jpg   State of the Studio-grpmastermixremnt.jpg  

Last edited by YashN; 12th October 2020 at 06:11 PM..
Old 27th September 2020
  #5
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
JX-3P Restoration

This was a studio instrument bought for a really good deal including the programmer.

Issues:

1. Noisy Chorus - the 'ocean woosh' very present - quite normal for old synths.

2. Brilliance Slider non-functional

3. Seq Rate pot flaky

4. Master Volume scratchy

5. 2 or 3 Keys non-functioning

Looking inside showed a fairly clean synth, with some dust and other things - pretty normal. Looked like some spilling under the PSU region, fortunately not on the PSU itself.

PSU checked out OK, albeit a bit lower than the +/-12, especially the -ve rail. Left it like that for now, but took some time to clean up the physical wiring there - slightly more 'solid sound'. Also cleaned up wiring (fairly clean to begin with and lovely connectors too).

Visual inspection + macro shots of the back of the Panel board showed some joint fractures. Fortunately, the PCB itself showed no trace damage at the corners where the screws are.

Based on my evaluation of the cleanliness I decided not to remove the faders for disassembly and cleaning, but just reflow the back of the Brilliance, Seq Rate and Edit sliders for good measure.

As for the keys, I noticed that 2 of them would play if I pressed sufficiently hard, so deduced that they just need cleaning up. 1 key was fixed just by spraying alcohol around it and repeatedly pressing it. Fun.

For the other(s), still had to reach for the springs, disassemble a couple of rows, remove that transparent plastic behind the keys, lift the membrane, clean up the contacts on the PCB and under the membrane and re-mount.

Problem: while lifting one spring for re-mount, it hooked another spring up and the latter fell somewhere, nowhere to be found again anymore.

Fashioned a similar spring with one longer and thinner one found in an old VCR that people throw away.

Tested. Works, I feel no difference with any other keys.

Results:

1. Noisy Chorus - Still there

2. Brilliance Slider non-functional - Fixed

3. Seq Rate pot flaky - Fixed

4. Master Volume scratchy - Fixed

5. 2 or 3 Keys non-functioning. Fixed

Restoration complete.

Attached Thumbnails
State of the Studio-panelboardbottom.jpg  
Old 2nd October 2020
  #6
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Lexicon LXP-15 Restoration

Another good deal for $75.

When tested, there was horrible scratching on turning the input and output pots, especially the first one, but effects could be heard.

The previous owner told me the internals were clean.

Not so on inspection back home...

Now, some people don't even believe Electrolytic caps can leak and damage traces. Here is proof.

I had to sort this out rapidly because since this was the PSU area, there is a potential for catastrophic failures propagating further down the circuits.

1. Original leaky caps removed, some additional components removed as well: a couple of more caps, one diode

2. Trace damage assessed

3. Traces repaired

4. Working components installed

5. Re-test successful

Restoration complete

Pots need some more cleaning as there is still some scratching although not as much as when initially tested.

I like the sound, especially on an AUX send on the mixer after the Soundcraft's level has been fixed, tested with the Akai Tom Cat Analogue Drum Machine and the Polyphonic Analogue Synths, as well as vocals.
Attached Thumbnails
State of the Studio-lxp15psu1.jpg   State of the Studio-lxp15psu2.jpg   State of the Studio-lxp15psu3.jpg   State of the Studio-lxp15psu4.jpg   State of the Studio-lxp15psu5.jpg  


Last edited by YashN; 3rd October 2020 at 12:29 PM..
Old 22nd October 2020
  #7
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Momentum

Warfare... unexpected. Health first.
  • Round 1
  • Round 2
  • Round 3
  • Round 3b <- We're here
  • Round 4 - Technicality

Too big to lose => Fight to Win. Mapped it all out.

Interspersed with that is a multi-level Round against the System. Had mapped that out too.

Jumped into the fray, face on fire.

Round 3b: teeth chattering, inner cold, trembling waves.

"Not good." (in the voice of Geralt of Rivia, Toxicity high on one side, not a whiny voice, what did you think huh?)

I see those crybabies still around, littering cyberspace with their shallow thoughts and little whiny voices, unaware how this reflects on them. They think they're winning a fight against me.

This is not my first Rodeo, punk.

The Battles a Man must go through.

Now, a detour: I know this cold, inner cold, close to the bone. Spiritual Warfare.

Battles rages on.

30 minute window until sleep.

Momentum, did I lose it?

Implementation - yes.
Mind racing implies we crushed 3 Rounds. At the same time, I feel like I am walking on eggs with online presence - some information is distant as memory can be. Need to ensure more care about proper information.

When your mind is racing, it means we don't really lose Momentum overall. We're mapping...

With a map and the key, the rest is an exercise in path-finding.

Timing is essential. We can map that out too mentally.

Fight! Fight! Fight!

Winners stand up one more time

[Imagine an Epic soundtrack to this, huh? There's something to be said about the Roland JX-3P and re-voicing experiments. Will come round to it]
Old 29th March 2021 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
Hi

If have seen you was looking for delta 200 schematics, they are in this post

Soundcraft Delta 200 PFL Mod

best regards

benoit
Old 6th April 2021 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdelacrose ➑️
Hi

If have seen you was looking for delta 200 schematics, they are in this post

Soundcraft Delta 200 PFL Mod

best regards

benoit
Yo Benoit, merci - I think I got the same file from a previous thread.

With regards to your PFL question, I believe you need to swap the first feedback resistor to 10K as the 2nd just looks like a buffer to me.

Give it a try, man.

News:

You'd have thought the Health 'Technicality' in #4 above would be just that but Life said 'no, check this new set of problems out'.

Been struggling a little with those, around the left jaw area. Not completely solved yet and we'll be losing some things there. For now, I have a sort of invisible tooth brace and I can hear my words differently especially for sibilants while my gf says there's no change.

Hard stuff.

Seeing that Kurzweil now has not only an affordable PC4 but has also released a K2700(!), you'd have thought I'd get one of those, but no...

I actually got a really battered, abandoned Kurzweil K2000 for very cheap, sold 'as is' i.e. without power cable, in other words, no guarantee of it even turning on.

It's a rarity of rarities as this one seems to be a V1.0. I think the one I bought initially from Singapore was a V2 and was made by Young Chang Akki. This one is a V1 also by Young Chang Akki.

Souvenirs!

It's a blast going through the original V1 presets, and check how the Sound Designers and Engineers were showing how to synthesize using different methods, including how to get the 'FM' tones and many other forms of synthesis.

Tested on arrival: Turns on!

Issues:

1. Noise on Main outputs. Usually related to Muting FETs. Removed them for now and just need to be careful when turning on the synth and the mixer.

2. Old Electrolytic caps in the PSU leaked a little. At that age, I'd replace them anyway, but the leaks, although not as bad as the Lexicon MXP-15 I repaired made me order parts and change those quite rapidly.

With the PSU repaired and stable, we also tackled this:

3. LCD Backlight doesn't turn on anymore. These are old LCD backlights which require quite a high voltage so there's an on-board inverter.

I actually made a side-light with strong Green LEDs and hooked power from 12V to light 3 on each side with resistors. It doesn't light like a new K2000, but it lights better than when there's no backlight.

4. One screw wouldn't come out, so had to force it out. The screw broke instead and I had to rotate the shell around it to remove it. In so doing, this damaged the floppy which I didn't want to use anyway. This was replaced by a Gotek floppy emulator, which works very well by default. Filled in many of the 100 floppies on an SDCard which is used via a USB-to-SDCard adapter so that my gf can test the sounds as well as those with samples.

Yep, bought it for her. She's happy.

5. Data slider was flaky. This was cleaned up and works OK now. A new Data slider would work better.

6. Main Volume Pot was scratchy. This was cleaned up.

I have a few more mods to it to make a really, really clean Power Supply for it but that will wait.

Glad Kurzweil released the K2700 but, wouldn't you know it - there's still a plethora of synthesis architectures hidden in my K2500XS + KDFX that the K2700 cannot do, of the order of many, many hundreds of thousands of combinations...

Not many people know. I do.

Not many people know how to do feedback architectures in the K2500 (also K2600) and what that means or what universe of architectures and hence, sounds, this opens up.

This is why I haven't felt the need to upgrade. It would be nice to have one day for sure. A cheaper PC4 for instance

Other mods planned for the K2000: O.S. and Setup firmware upgrades, especially giving my gf access to the advanced sequencer instead of the internal scratchpad sequencer in the v1.0.
Old 9th April 2021
  #10
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Soundcraft Delta PSU



This needs re-working.

One of the things I noticed is similar to what I found in my smaller Soundcraft Compact 4, namely a power-derated resistor linked to the regulator. In the Compact 4, that area heated up so much that the markings on the resistor itself flaked off. Same issue here for the larger mixer. The resolution should be one or more resistors to take the heat.

But it's not the only issue within the CPS PSU: there's a 'Supercapacitor' which should be replaced entirely by a normal cap, etc... The old Regulator is a good candidate for replacement.

I might actually revise this PSU more extensively even before the Reg itself as well.

The transformer is mounted on a PCB, so that makes mods a tad more complicated than usual.

I recall reading Jim's recommendation of getting a couple of Power-One Linear Regulated PSUs for the main console power and the Phantom power, so that's an option too but the first tendency is to work on it myself.
Old 9th April 2021
  #11
Gear Guru
The 2.7k divider resistor on the 783 phantom regulator always burns up. Replace it with a 1 watt resistor.
Old 9th April 2021 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
The 2.7k divider resistor on the 783 phantom regulator always burns up. Replace it with a 1 watt resistor.
Hope all is well on your side, Jim.

Yup, I'll see what I can get from my parts boxes, might go for series or parallel if I don't get the proper single value and rating. Can you believe they have a similar flaw in the much later issued Compact 4? I was fairly surprised. I found out when I opened it up for cleaning.

I think I am going to have a look at the datasheet for the LM338 as well and see if they missed anything. Saw someone install small caps at the Regulator legs to clamp down on ripple - that sort of thing.

I also thought that technically the Regs should be at the Mixer end rather than that far from the power consumers (channels, groups, Master Mix), but not sure I am going to do that 'mod'. Might beef up the reservoir caps on each of those instead, console end.

Not sure if I remember you saying we could also do something for the Main Mix in the Master Channel or if it's already done properly in the Delta - something having to do with wiring as a Trans-amp.

My notes so far for the PSU looks at checking and/or replacing: Bridge Rectifiers, Capacitors, checking Resistors (R32 but also R1, R2 as some people had trouble with those as well so R21, R22 too), maybe further down the line replacing the Regs with more modern and better specced ones, etc... I have a few parts on hand for my audiophile and synth builds, so I might use them on the Mixer itself.

Managed to extricate a Billion Transformer from an old Bose Acoustimass Subwoofer right before lunch today and it was no little feat. These things, despite the bad rep. they get, are built like tanks.

Enjoy Friday and the Week-end!
Old 11th April 2021
  #13
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I did a visual inspection of the interior of the CPS-150 and I don't like the layout. Sure, I understand the analogue out Regs get hot and have been mounted this way: actually a plastic insert which allows the Reg legs not to short to the chassis, and then be mounted onto an exterior heatsink.

However, the set Resistors and one small cap each are on the PCB, away from the Reg which have leads to a connector each which itself hooks up to the PCB. That's a long way off where these components should be ideally to actually be useful. Potentially some mods here, moving both the set Resistor and the small cap (plus additional small cap at output) nearer the Reg legs.

I might also replace the Supercaps with normal large caps and move the Supercaps post Reg, probably nearer the console if possible. They're not long, but they're large.

The interior looks rather pristine apart for some browning around the area of the Phantom Power Reg set Resistor, as expected. This PSU and the mixer which came with it must not have been used a lot in the studio that bought them.
Old 19th April 2021
  #14
Gear Guru
I have a CPS 150 here that was almost destroyed by another service company. It needed a lot of trace repairs. 10 amp rectifiers, 33,000 uf mains caps and 1000 uf low impedance post regulator caps show .1 mv "noise" on a scope at 1 mv/division. It's really a rather clean line with a tiny amount of diversion. I also had to replace the 2.7k phantom sense resistor, they put in a 1/8 watter that was also burned up. I use 1 watt so it will last.

The console modules have 10 ohm fuse resistors and 2200 uf low impedance caps = no psu noise.
Old 25th April 2021 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
10 amp rectifiers, 33,000 uf mains caps and 1000 uf low impedance post regulator caps show .1 mv "noise" on a scope at 1 mv/division.
The console modules have 10 ohm fuse resistors and 2200 uf low impedance caps = no psu noise.
That's really great measurements, Jim, thanks for sharing.

If we add to this:

- move the existing small input caps nearer the Regs
- add output small caps near the Regs
- move the set resistors near the Regs,

we should be Golden, barring the moving of the Regs themselves to console end, that is.

What do you think would be better, newer LDO Regs in place of the exising ones? LT108x or other recommendation(s)?

I also noticed something odd: there isn't any damping network on the Phantom Power transformer secondary. They are there for the secondaries for the Dual Rail Analogue Power. Another thing to add potentially.

I recently stumbled across better Phantom Power implementations using a chip. I don't remember the name of it, but it was something which took around 60+V first to get a clean 48V Vref to make the Phantom Power. Audio clips definitely showed an audible difference.

Another week-end after a deep-cleaning of teeth and gums with some surgery this Thursday. Fortunately, a long week-end so I am mostly resting, while anti-biotics and painkiller wreak havoc on my stomach.

Still took some time revisiting my Roland JX-3P mods. I did so much signal path correction (much like the Soundcraft Master channel fixes along it) that it was hard to remember what I completed.

Thankfully, I have a document I built with a list of the mods and details as well as that big thread over at the formerly known as Muffwiggler. I usually list the tasks/mods and there is a bold '-OK!' where I actually completed them. However, I am still not sure I did some mods on the Chorus Mixer + Stereoiser and Phone output stages. Will have to perform a visual inspection of the board for those areas to confirm.

The thread and other forum content is now over at Modwiggler.com

It started about the noisy VCA in the JX-3P but then went way beyond that. I will post more about it here when I get round to it.

Last edited by YashN; 26th April 2021 at 06:00 AM..
Old 25th April 2021
  #16
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Soundcraft CPS-150 mods

I just removed the bottom Resistor for the Phantom Power Reg circuit, the under-powered one and something I've never seen just happened.

Now, usually I just put the iron on the backside of the PCB at the joint, then pull the component leg from the other side and do that same thing for the other leg. Of course, this is not a very good thing to do regarding PCB traces and vias, but it usually works and no damage is encountered on either the vias or PCBs traces. Very rarely, I do lift off a via from a board meant for salvaging so it doesn't matter much when retrieving salvaged components.

So working on the CPS-150 today, turns out you need to unscrew the large heatsink at the back of the chassis, unplug the Dual-Rail Regs and only then you can get to move the main PCB out.

Since this is the only PSU I have for my mixer, I proceeded more carefully than the extraction described above: clipped the low-wattage resistor out, straightened the remaining legs from the top of the PCB, used the solder sucker, then re-heated the via a little while pulling.

This is what happened: when I used the solder sucker on one via, the actual via AND a little bit of the trace were gone. For the other via, it lifted but the trace is intact even though I was pulling from the other side of the PCB!

This probably has to do with with the latest non-adjustable iron I have used heating the area too much.

Still, for a PSU, I would expect these traces and vias to be more solidly anchored and masked there. It does appear that the PCB itself either wasn't made super solid or became fragile with age (and that's on top of me overheating the area which I am 90% sure of).

For this reason, I would not recommend you work on the CPS-150 unless you have some experience with restoring tracks by bridging the connections. You may be OK with using low power on an adjustable iron.

Another observation on that Phantom Power bottom resistor: Soundcraft did a 'clever' thing here using the LED which lowers the noise in the adjust network also as an indicator for Phantom Power.

However, the layout suffers since that LED is far off to the front of the PCB. Someone - maybe Matt - also mentioned that if that LED goes bad, then the Reg circuit would malfunction in a damaging way for the receiving end.

I think it would be better here to still use a new LED below the bottom resistor to GND but nearer to the Reg's 'GND' return, and disconnect LED3 from that bottom resistor, but power it from the output of the Reg via another suitable resistor.

In other words, you separate the indicator from the LED which lowers noise in the adjust network.

I am looking at the internals and a lot of those wires should be twisted. I'll see what I can do without too many manipulations.
Old 25th April 2021
  #17
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
On a Soundcraft Spirit Studio thread, for the same PSU, Jim reminds us we need to up those output caps as well.

I had originally planned to move the 'supercaps' there after replacement, but they are physically too large. I might either try to move them to the console side at Power input if there's space, or else re-use them for experiments.

The tiny caps on the output stages of the analogue dual rails sure must go - they're tiny.

I might also need to increase capacitance for the Phantom power rail.
Old 27th April 2021
  #18
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Soundcraft CPS-150 mods

Re-work done since yesterday:

1. Set Resistor for Phantom Power changed to a larger Wattage, measured a bit larger than the original 2.7K

2. Added another 47uF parallel cap to the existing one for Phantom Power

3. Added damping network for the Phantom Power

4. New larger caps for Dual-Rail post Reg: 2000uF for +ve, 1000uF for -ve.

5. Re-touched several joints

Re-work done today:

6. Installed rubber grommets underneath the transformer

7. Worked on internal wiring - no desoldering, but those with lugs were removed.

8.Dual Rails set at +/- 18.05V

9. Phantom measured 50 - 51.2V

Spots the differences with stock:



Vibration and accompanying physical 'hum' are gone.

Extended Frequency range, especially the bass, and clean highs, tested with the Kurzweil K2500.

There's more ahead.
Attached Thumbnails
State of the Studio-psu_b.jpg  

Last edited by YashN; 11th May 2021 at 07:08 AM..
Old 28th April 2021
  #19
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Since I increased the output of the Dual Rail to +18V I was thinking: 'what is the maximum Voltage we can safely raise the outputs to without any issues?'.

Good for headroom, but if it's going to cause issues elsewhere in the console not worth it, e.g. changes bias points adversely, or at extremes, potential damage to components which we'd like to avoid.

Mine are currently set at +/- 18.05V and with all the mods so far, I am very happy with the sound.

Will update again with new changes maybe after another round of mods today as I did some more work yesterday afternoon on it.
Old 29th April 2021
  #20
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Via what via?

Richard Zeier servicing his Soundcraft Ghost on Youtube reminds us these are single-sided PCBs, so vias? What vias?

While vias give support to traces on both sides, here we don't have this at all. That's also part of the explanation why traces - with their round endings - can be lifted off a little too easily here.

Work done over two days:

1. Greater cap for Phantom Power

2. Bypass caps for Dual-Rail PSU

3. More wiring work

4. Added heatsinks for Dual Rail Bridge Rectifiers

5. New, different Rectifier diodes for Phantom Power bridge.

I really like what the Channel input amps are now doing for the synth. And to think I haven't yet optimised that section at all, so looking forward to doing these mods too although I know I can optimise signal flow by inputting at the inserts if needed, bypassing the preamp and the EQ.

Solid extended range sound throughout.

Testing this afternoon with the Kurzweil K2500 + KDFX showed some really cool ambiences, very reminiscent of Vangelis, Blade Runner era. Very, very good.

High-end EQ is harsh at extreme high gains, so that needs to be worked on as well.

I am also thinking of the necessity to review all the signal flow for both tracking with external effects and for groups, especially when it comes to the lower ranges - thinking of the Lexicon LXP-15 Reverbs and the Kurzweil KDFX ones as well.

That means reviewing signal path for Channel Inputs, AUX sends and returns, and Groups.

Now that we have worked on both the Master Section and the PSU and made the latter more reliable regarding thermal effects (more could be done on the PSU but for now I will keep it fixed at this level so that I can focus on the rest), we can consider these mods for Inputs, AUX and Groups.
Attached Thumbnails
State of the Studio-psu_c.jpg   State of the Studio-psu_d.jpg  

Last edited by YashN; 29th April 2021 at 01:47 AM..
Old 30th April 2021
  #21
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Lexicon LXP-15 Revisit

After the Mixer PSU mods, it was time to set up the Lexicon LXP-15 as AUX again.

I tested a few configurations, each with its own pros and cons: returns on Channels, on two separate Groups, on a single Group... The idea here was to reduce the components within the signal chain to get an invariant Mixer-side so that I can do some work and listen to it on the effects processor.

Although I labelled my L/R cables, I made a mistake on the Mixer-side cable remaining which wasn't labelled and couldn't understand why the Lexicon wasn't working, and ended up re-cleaning both the input and output pots. Doesn't hurt as these get really dirty with time and since they're totally in the Sig path, if they scratch, you'll hear it, and not in a good way.

Other observations: I really like the sounds: Large Hall, Rooms with Delays, Plates, Chorus and Flangers, etc...

On testing with Groups for returns, I was able to have a fair amount of flexibility for gain staging at the Mixer, both within the Group and with the AUX pot and the Monitor Pots in the Master section. I noticed that on a patch called Medium Room + Delay or something like that, there was some switching noise bleed on the outputs. It's a rather low frequency noise, around 4 ticks per second I'd say and is irregular. I swapped the return cables' places and it was gone. Still, something I could investigate further within the Lexicon: switching and clocking noises.

The LXP-15 appears to use the single DAC in an unconventional way where you'd expect two DACs or a stereo DAC: the DAC is used to switch between left and right, so more additional switching than expected.

And boy do they love their NP caps all around! Since there's already [Low Pass Filter] -> [Pre-emphasis] and [Low Pass Filter] -> [De-emphasis] along the way, I presume here that these caps could be replaced with benefits.

Input side: we can hardly get the full-range on the input pot as the gain here is too large. I could reduce it here to around 4, lowering the FB res, but I also saw Jim mention more digital noise going through here. It would be a good thing to try if we're additionally tackling the digital noise bleed root cause though.

PSU and accompanying wiring re-work is also a beneficial possibility here: I find the arrangement of AC input with the red film caps and yellow varistors under the PCB quite puzzling: doesn't this induce interference with the regulated analogue traces right on top of them?

Seeing the initial heating up of the filter caps that I replaced, there should be a need to improve air-flow as there is currently none with the chassis as it is. I may drill some holes around the area and insert a mesh or grille to prevent dust accumulation inside.

Apart from the feedback Resistors reduction and some AC re-wiring, I don't have the components to do a full cap replacement. I can however, do some probing around the chips and try to see if I find any glaring interference, and I could also probe the power lines to some extent.

Because of that ticking noise on Medium Room + Delay, I could also probe along the Sig. Path and attempt locating where this occurs.
Old 5th May 2021
  #22
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Lexicon LXP-15 mod

Fixed the issue with the front-end overloading on small Input Pot rotation. This was turning everything to mush because it was overloading way too easily.

Replaced two resistors and now I can get the pure effected sound up to the mid point of the pot or so, instead of at the West position previously.

Based on the gain structure as well as the sound prior to testing and after testing just now, I'd say there's a good chance the original also damages the signal when it goes to the MDACs and the rest of the circuit.

Now the effects do sound properly: lovely Reverbs albeit on the darker side, plates, even Chorus and Flange. Effects with combined Reverb and Detune now sound great.

Now, if I want a little overdrive, onset is at the penultimate tick, and maxing out the Input Pot makes the front-end overdrive more audible without the 'mushing up' of chaotic harmonics. This front-end overdrive can be a useful creative tool if used judiciously.

Based on what I heard just now, there would be a need to allow some more Gain at the Output section for some settings (Input not overdriven) to compensate for the reduced Input Gain structure.

Because of the darker nature of the Lexicon, the Kurzweil's analogue emulations sound closer to the real thing and less digital.

It is obvious to me that the LXP-15 shipped with a design flaw here. It's an easy fix and is a must to be able to actually hear what this effects processor can do.

Last edited by YashN; 5th May 2021 at 05:27 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Lexicon LXP-15 thoughts, Routings and Kurzweil FX

Since my soldering irons gave up the ghost, this allowed for more thinking time as well as delving in the manuals of the K2500 and the KDFX.

I. Lexicon LXP-15:

For the Lexicon LXP-15, after the input Pot gain structure modification, I think there may be a need to address the signal which reaches the MDACs too.

Overall I do like the sound although I'd like to revisit the secondary caps for the analogue section as there's a solitary one per rail, far off from the section and it's quite small.

I have a fair number of ideas for additional controls and feedback routes, but I also have to think about whether it is necessary to go on this path or not and here's why:

The Lexicon LXP-15 (and II) is far less editable than my Kurzweil KDFX and other more versatile Lexicons like the PCM line, especially the PCM 80/81.

Secondly, the LXP-15 really is internally a Mono-to-Stereo effects processor as opposed to a true stereo-to-stereo effects processor.

This means I could do some really cool things with two LXP-15s, indeed some superbly cool things when combined with a few feed-forward routes and feedback routes. However, there's really very little chance I am going to hunt for a second LXP-15 just to do that.

II. Kurzweil KDFX:

I might as well just play with the KDFX for that type of thing or alternately save up for a Lexicon 80 or 81 or an Eventide. The Eventide would allow us to play with VSig and implement effects down to a great detail but see Post #1 : no buying more gear - it's more about diving deep into the existing gear instead.

This leaves us with:

1. The very nimble, very flexible and superb-sounding KDFX and its V2 routing capabilities (chain more than 1 DSP unit on a single FX bus, 1 DSP unit can even be a multi effect itself, like combining Delay, Chorus and Reverb), as well as the special routings allowed by both the Kurzweil K2500 Sampling option and firmware (Live Mode = external processing which goes to to both the internal V.A.S.T. engine AND the KDFX engines).

2. The Soundcraft Delta 200 with its 6 AUXes, together with the Group channels' simplified Group to AUX1 re-send.

Wouldn't it have been great to have more than just AUX1 on the Groups? Yes, for sure, but if I do really want an augmented Send Matrix, I can plug in returns on normal channels to get access to the 6 different AUX sends which each its own effects chain. But then, of course, this reduces our inputs for simultaneous instruments.

III. Future

Ultimately, therefore, we sure would like a sidecar mixer just for playing with effects. This, augmented with an effects patchbay, balanced preferably, would give us a great potential for experimentation. This will have to wait though so the question then becomes 'what are really cool routings I can already do with what we have?'

... To be continued...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Kurzweil KSP8 by Saint Luminus

Italo will probably find this series of videos interesting, especially this one, and even more so as from the 19 minute mark where Saint Luminus gives his evaluation of the sound comparison with the higher ends Lexicons, the PCM 80/81, as he also has that:



This one should also be very interesting, because he also shows you what the internal parameters are when editing a preset, especially interesting in the following one where he focuses on the KSP8's Delays starts around the 6:30 mark where he plays a single 'Basic Delay' preset which uses a tiny 1 unit of DSP processing and then goes into edit mode at the 7 minute mark and you can see how the actual FX Algorithm is named and which internal parameters it uses, especially at the 7:22 mark:



As I told Italo, there was very little chance of these not being properly implemented in the Kurzweils. That would be seriously under-estimating the genius of the following folks: Ray Kurzweil, Bob Chidlaw, Chris Moore (Moore already encountered and solved a subset of the problems of this particular type of effects when he left Lexicon in the 70's to build his own company. I should really say the Reverbs when made from these sub-units, the Delays, but true effects Geeks would already know what I'm talking about), and a few others of the team there.

Now think about this: I have these same algorithms in my synth itself (apart from the KSP8's surround ones which the KDFX doesn't have)...
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by YashN ➑️
Italo will probably find this series of videos interesting, especially this one, and even more so as from the 19 minute mark where Saint Luminus gives his evaluation of the sound comparison with the higher ends Lexicons, the PCM 80/81, as he also has that:



This one should also be very interesting, because he also shows you what the internal parameters are when editing a preset, especially interesting in the following one where he focuses on the KSP8's Delays starts around the 6:30 mark where he plays a single 'Basic Delay' preset which uses a tiny 1 unit of DSP processing and then goes into edit mode at the 7 minute mark and you can see how the actual FX Algorithm is named and which internal parameters it uses, especially at the 7:22 mark:



As I told Italo, there was very little chance of these not being properly implemented in the Kurzweils. That would be seriously under-estimating the genius of the following folks: Ray Kurzweil, Bob Chidlaw, Chris Moore (Moore already encountered and solved a subset of the problems of this particular type of effects when he left Lexicon in the 70's to build his own company. I should really say the Reverbs when made from these sub-units, the Delays, but true effects Geeks would already know what I'm talking about), and a few others of the team there.

Now think about this: I have these same algorithms in my synth itself (apart from the KSP8's surround ones which the KDFX doesn't have)...


Our discussion was different, more properly focused on realtime MIDI CC modulation of some parameters that may not be interpolated... so this video doesn't add anything to that as modulated delays ARE ALWAYS interpolated. The answer to my point was to test those parameters but we never got an answer from your testing.
It's not about "properly implementation" of something... you rarely add interpolation to a delay that doesn't need to be modulated... it's about finding out the actual truth of that implementation!
Demos here are lacking a lot... but still... it's good to see some KSP8 sounds on YTube as it was missing big time.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #26
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
Our discussion was different, more properly focused on realtime MIDI CC modulation of some parameters that may not be interpolated... so this video doesn't add anything to that as modulated delays ARE ALWAYS interpolated. The answer to my point was to test those parameters but we never got an answer from your testing.
Come stai, Italo?

Although I deleted a few of my posts in our discussion, I remember very well what it was about: mostly you always making the worst assumption possible about the effects in the KDFX (and KSP8), and me telling you again and again there's little chance of these effects glitching in the particular modulation you were thinking of.

Now, I could tell you more, like for instance what you should pay particular attention to is when he goes into the EDIT mode, the LFOs here in the editing page are internal to the effect itself (as opposed to an external LFO from V.A.S.T. or elsewhere). That should be of special interest.

I can tell you I re-tested these specific effects where the LFOs are internal - they sound great and there's no problematic glitch that I can hear.

But as the saying goes, you can bring a horse to the water but can't bring it to drink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
It's not about "properly implementation" of something... you rarely add interpolation to a delay that doesn't need to be modulated... it's about finding out the actual truth of that implementation!
These delays as you see in the video are able to be modulated, period. There's no glitch, period.

You're still making the underlying assumption that they aren't implemented in the proper way you're thinking of.

Here's how you are ultimately able to find out (and I mean you as in 'you, Italo'):

Easy: get a KSP8 do the modulation(s) and listen.

OK, I know you said they're hard to find these days, and I'd tend to agree, so keep an eye for one somewhere even if it is visiting someone who already has one.

Probably easier alternative to find: as I said, you can find the same implementations in synths with the KDFX, that means either a K2500 with one installed (or K2500R for the 'Rack' version, or a K2600 (K2600R, K2661). If you get one, you can edit the KDFX Studio and Presets and edit the specific parameters for modulation. Since you already have a lot of experience editing Eventides and Lexicons, it shouldn't be too difficult.

NB: I haven't said 'all the delays are able to be modulated'. There are specific ones, as there are very specific implementations of Reverbs that also have this ability and internal controls like that.

I could also make some recordings, but that would mean I feel the need to convince you had a higher priority on my Synthesis + Routing experiments.

I don't, and the Routings and special modes of the Kurzweil K2500 with the KDFX go way, way beyond just testing this and provide a massive number of ways for Synthesis or for FX creation. This is my goal and I stick to it.

Even if I provide you with recordings, I feel you'd find some other negative to dump upon the machine without having ever tried it.

At least download the manuals for the Algorithm Reference as you should see some very interesting descriptions there.

I might still do recordings at one point because it could be interesting to pit the Lexicon LXP-15 (or II) against the KDFX although the LXP-15 is way, way under-powered when it comes to the set of editable and controllable parameters, so we'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
Demos here are lacking a lot... but still... it's good to see some KSP8 sounds on YTube as it was missing big time.
Yes, very rare indeed, and in fact, there is a similar phenomenon for the synth part of the Kurzweil where most of the existing demos you'll see are really acoustic sounds.

There's nothing wrong with demos of acoustic sounds per se, but there's so much more to these synths. These kind of demos are rare.

It has been like that for years.

He will do additional demos focusing on the different effects, but I doubt he'll dive too deeply into editing the presets, although he does do a little at one point.

But he also said he found the KDFX to sound better than the Lexicon PCM8x...

Worth exploring?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by YashN ➑️
Come stai, Italo?

Although I deleted a few of my posts in our discussion, I remember very well what it was about: mostly you always making the worst assumption possible about the effects in the KDFX (and KSP8), and me telling you again and again there's little chance of these effects glitching in the particular modulation you were thinking of.

Now, I could tell you more, like for instance what you should pay particular attention to is when he goes into the EDIT mode, the LFOs here in the editing page are internal to the effect itself (as opposed to an external LFO from V.A.S.T. or elsewhere). That should be of special interest.

I can tell you I re-tested these specific effects where the LFOs are internal - they sound great and there's no problematic glitch that I can hear.

But as the saying goes, you can bring a horse to the water but can't bring it to drink.



These delays as you see in the video are able to be modulated, period. There's no glitch, period.

You're still making the underlying assumption that they aren't implemented in the proper way you're thinking of.

Here's how you are ultimately able to find out (and I mean you as in 'you, Italo'):

Easy: get a KSP8 do the modulation(s) and listen.

OK, I know you said they're hard to find these days, and I'd tend to agree, so keep an eye for one somewhere even if it is visiting someone who already has one.

Probably easier alternative to find: as I said, you can find the same implementations in synths with the KDFX, that means either a K2500 with one installed (or K2500R for the 'Rack' version, or a K2600 (K2600R, K2661). If you get one, you can edit the KDFX Studio and Presets and edit the specific parameters for modulation. Since you already have a lot of experience editing Eventides and Lexicons, it shouldn't be too difficult.

NB: I haven't said 'all the delays are able to be modulated'. There are specific ones, as there are very specific implementations of Reverbs that also have this ability and internal controls like that.

I could also make some recordings, but that would mean I feel the need to convince you had a higher priority on my Synthesis + Routing experiments.

I don't, and the Routings and special modes of the Kurzweil K2500 with the KDFX go way, way beyond just testing this and provide a massive number of ways for Synthesis or for FX creation. This is my goal and I stick to it.

Even if I provide you with recordings, I feel you'd find some other negative to dump upon the machine without having ever tried it.

At least download the manuals for the Algorithm Reference as you should see some very interesting descriptions there.

I might still do recordings at one point because it could be interesting to pit the Lexicon LXP-15 (or II) against the KDFX although the LXP-15 is way, way under-powered when it comes to the set of editable and controllable parameters, so we'll see.



Yes, very rare indeed, and in fact, there is a similar phenomenon for the synth part of the Kurzweil where most of the existing demos you'll see are really acoustic sounds.

There's nothing wrong with demos of acoustic sounds per se, but there's so much more to these synths. These kind of demos are rare.

It has been like that for years.

He will do additional demos focusing on the different effects, but I doubt he'll dive too deeply into editing the presets, although he does do a little at one point.

But he also said he found the KDFX to sound better than the Lexicon PCM8x...

Worth exploring?

Well...
you are getting my feelings for the KSP8 ALL WRONG!
"We" even tried to hire the guys who made it... back in the day. My love for the KSP8 is all over the internet. Just plain and clear. Even the guy who made those 2 Ytube demos mention "a friend who builds algorithms"... which is me. He trusted me and got the KSP8.
So... I don't have to find a glitch in it for any reason. But knowing how one builds algorithms, there are different implementations that are not always the same. I would perfectly expect a non modulatable delay to have a zipper noise and would not complain about it because I know I won't have that noise on other algorithms. I don't patch a MIDI CC to a simple delay because it may zip. Then...if it doesn't... great.
My point to your statements was "pushing on the brake" because you felt way too confident on things you didn't even know... and I had to explain you the testing. Look... if my Lexicon 300 delay does a zipper noise, it's not a problem... because I can choose a different algorithm on it that does what I expect. The judgement of what the Lex300 is... doesn't change. It's agreat machine. I DO actually expect some non interpolated parameters in an algorithm because it shows how the engineer made a choice to use resources for something more important in that structure. You always have to play with finite resources and often you have to make cuts to reach the best balanced possible results.
Now back to you....
don't be so sure your Kurzweil keyboard truly has the same exact algorithms as the KSP8 until you don't actually test them side by side. I would expect a revision made for different products with choices made upon the target of a device. Now a dedicated fx processor is aimed to more specific tasks and to a wider customer base... so they may have changed something. Again... only a test would reveal any difference. What I am sure in terms of difference is the tone! The analog section of the KSP8 is definitely much beefier than anything one would put in a keyboard... so I expect tonal character to be different.
Don't worry... I know enough about Kurzweil effects to be aware of their personality and some of them for their uniqueness... particularly reverbs which definitely sport a dense E.R./Diffusion section in evidence vs. reverb tail, which is grainy and coarse. The kind of density you hear on old 2xx series Lexicons.
Don't be offended by an expert suggesting that a parameter *may* "zip"... we are not talking about your son... just about a box which can plainly zip and for a good reason.
Pride can be blind!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #28
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Italo, I don't doubt your abilities or knowledge at all, knowing you worked for Eventide, programmed all these wonderful machines from various manufacturers, and seen your excellent videos.

We'll get back to the gist of your discussions at one point for sure.

However, what should also be clear is this: I know way more about Kurzweil than you do, and that's about the sound synthesis aspect, using the effects themselves, and using both with routings, including special routings.

Start thinking about the company as a DSP + internal VLSI power-house and you'll be closer to understanding. Both Chris Moore and Bob Chidlaw (now at Source Audio) worked on the FX DSP.

Also read these manuals: KDFX for K2500 and the KDFX v2 supplement, specifically the areas pertaining to Delays and Reverbs (you will already find extremely interesting info there pertaining to the points you are considering), then read the KSP8 manuals, check the parameters side-by-side. They never mentioned anything in the marketing about KSP8 having better ALGs than KDFX. That's one thing that marketing would hammer your head with if it was true, and actually - see below - in some ways the synth's effects will be better than the KSP8.

These are the main differences:

1. KSP8 does Surround, KDFX doesn't. KSP8 has some additional mono and stereo ALGs that are not in the KDFX according to Kurzweil themselves.

2. KSP8 has more I/O channels. KDFX within a synth is limited to 2 channels of I/O for external processing

3. KSP8 has a beautiful remote. KDFX doesn't but since it is internal to the synth, in the keyboard version, you can map sliders and other controllers to internal KDFX parameters (or use an external MIDI controller mapped to its parameters)

4. KSP8 is packaged in an outboard rack, with a PSU which doesn't do the ALGs justice. KDFX is powered by a relatively way cleaner PSU.

5. KSP8 works as expected for an outboard gear, namely the A/D is on by default. KDFX in outboard gear mode is a bit different: you need to know how to set it up and to trigger the external processing mode ON. Additionally, the Sampling option is required for outboard processing.

6. KSP8 doesn't have V.A.S.T. internally. KDFX in the synth can be preceded by V.A.S.T. processing, even for external processing(! that's a V.A.S.T.-augmented DSP FX power gear).

In other words, get a synth with the KDFX and you get the same ALGs as KSP8 (we don't consider Surround here) but it will sound better on the synth than on the actual KSP8 outboard but it's less immediate to set up in outboard mode and it's less channels and you'll have to pay special attention to the A/D gain structure.

I'd recommend getting a synth one actually: either a K2500 with KDFX and sampling input or K2600 (K2661 also) with sampling input. Newer synths have more DSP chaining power for the FX but their V.A.S.T. doesn't process external signals although you do have external audio input just for the FX (might be easier to set up as outboard than my synth too).

I dug deep into the platform on the synth and that rewarded me in spades for what I wanted to do (more on that later)

BTW, our friend Saint Luminus continues to have fun on his KSP8:



Actually, he started just recently on a Kurzweil Rumour (same ALGs, but a subset of KDFX/KSP8 only), Mangler has another subset and there are some common ALGs to them too:



Now he's using a Blofeld synth through it!

Kurzweil Rumour -> Kurzweil KSP8 (I see a pattern here...), synths....

He might like a K2000 too or a K2500+KDFX or a K2600(KDFX is internal)?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
italo de angelis's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by YashN ➑️
Italo, I don't doubt your abilities or knowledge at all, knowing you worked for Eventide, programmed all these wonderful machines from various manufacturers, and seen your excellent videos.

We'll get back to the gist of your discussions at one point for sure.

However, what should also be clear is this: I know way more about Kurzweil than you do, and that's about the sound synthesis aspect, using the effects themselves, and using both with routings, including special routings.

Start thinking about the company as a DSP + internal VLSI power-house and you'll be closer to understanding. Both Chris Moore and Bob Chidlaw (now at Source Audio) worked on the FX DSP.

Also read these manuals: KDFX for K2500 and the KDFX v2 supplement, specifically the areas pertaining to Delays and Reverbs (you will already find extremely interesting info there pertaining to the points you are considering), then read the KSP8 manuals, check the parameters side-by-side. They never mentioned anything in the marketing about KSP8 having better ALGs than KDFX. That's one thing that marketing would hammer your head with if it was true, and actually - see below - in some ways the synth's effects will be better than the KSP8.

These are the main differences:

1. KSP8 does Surround, KDFX doesn't. KSP8 has some additional mono and stereo ALGs that are not in the KDFX according to Kurzweil themselves.

2. KSP8 has more I/O channels. KDFX within a synth is limited to 2 channels of I/O for external processing

3. KSP8 has a beautiful remote. KDFX doesn't but since it is internal to the synth, in the keyboard version, you can map sliders and other controllers to internal KDFX parameters (or use an external MIDI controller mapped to its parameters)

4. KSP8 is packaged in an outboard rack, with a PSU which doesn't do the ALGs justice. KDFX is powered by a relatively way cleaner PSU.

5. KSP8 works as expected for an outboard gear, namely the A/D is on by default. KDFX in outboard gear mode is a bit different: you need to know how to set it up and to trigger the external processing mode ON. Additionally, the Sampling option is required for outboard processing.

6. KSP8 doesn't have V.A.S.T. internally. KDFX in the synth can be preceded by V.A.S.T. processing, even for external processing(! that's a V.A.S.T.-augmented DSP FX power gear).

In other words, get a synth with the KDFX and you get the same ALGs as KSP8 (we don't consider Surround here) but it will sound better on the synth than on the actual KSP8 outboard but it's less immediate to set up in outboard mode and it's less channels and you'll have to pay special attention to the A/D gain structure.

I'd recommend getting a synth one actually: either a K2500 with KDFX and sampling input or K2600 (K2661 also) with sampling input. Newer synths have more DSP chaining power for the FX but their V.A.S.T. doesn't process external signals although you do have external audio input just for the FX (might be easier to set up as outboard than my synth too).

I dug deep into the platform on the synth and that rewarded me in spades for what I wanted to do (more on that later)

BTW, our friend Saint Luminus continues to have fun on his KSP8:



Actually, he started just recently on a Kurzweil Rumour (same ALGs, but a subset of KDFX/KSP8 only), Mangler has another subset and there are some common ALGs to them too:



Now he's using a Blofeld synth through it!

Kurzweil Rumour -> Kurzweil KSP8 (I see a pattern here...), synths....

He might like a K2000 too or a K2500+KDFX or a K2600(KDFX is internal)?

You have spent countless hours and bla bla on a simple detail, fanfaring about anything possible and even completely unrelated with that. The simple thing is interpolation of delays, which is a simple common technique of creating a delay with a bit of extra code allowing for realtime manipulation of it avoiding zipper noise.
And you were so sure ALL delays were interpolated in the KSP8 which you do not own BUT state is 100% identical to your synth, surround excluded. Fine. I tend to state that something works in a specific way AFTER I test it, without assuming... because there are common practice ways to build these thing thru the whole efx industry. So better test than stating bubbles. And still you haven't come to a conclusion if all those algorithms have interpolated delays or not... because you haven't tested them... but you think they are. Good luck!
It doesn't take any knowledge of any product to find out that, just being humble, shut up, do the tests and THEN reporting the findings.
Trust me, you didn't know about interpolation before learning from me! Synthesis on the Kurzs ain't the point at all here.

Those demos? I feel sorry for those guys who made the KSP8... some of the worst demos ever made on you tube. Too much talking, bad levels, playing totally unfit... just no....
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #30
Gear Addict
 
YashN's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
You have spent countless hours and bla bla on a simple detail, fanfaring about anything possible and even completely unrelated with that.
You completely fail, again, at understanding that what I'm doing here supercedes your own obsession with delay interpolation as if it is the only way to a good-sounding reverb (another wrong assumption of yours).

What I am doing is enabling the explosion of combinations of using DSP processing units.

Anything can be dropped within these routings, including the simpler delays and reverbs of the KDFX, or the more complex ones, including your obsession (interpolated/moving delays and interpolated/moving delay lines found in the reverbs).

Is this too complicated to understand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
The simple thing is interpolation of delays, which is a simple common technique of creating a delay with a bit of extra code allowing for realtime manipulation of it avoiding zipper noise.
Nope: Never said all of them were interpolated. It was you who were so sure that I was always dealing with rudimentary delays or reverbs which don't have these internally for some reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
And you were so sure ALL delays were interpolated in the KSP8 which you do not own BUT state is 100% identical to your synth, surround excluded. Fine.
I own KDFX. KDFX = building blocks for KSP8. Apart from Surround, some internal synths, mono versions of stereo KDFX effects and perhaps a few additions in stereo, the DELAYS and the REVERBS are THE SAME ALGORITHMS, period.

Therefore, I don't need to hear the KSP8: I can hear the same delays and reverbs right here with KDFX.

Not only that: my synth has a cleaner PSU than a KSP8. Therefore, I can even hear these ALGs better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
I tend to state that something works in a specific way AFTER I test it, without assuming... because there are common practice ways to build these thing thru the whole efx industry. So better test than stating bubbles.
How about you follow your own advice: test KDFX or KSP8 or Rumour or Mangler before assuming the worse? As I mentioned before, your assumptions make nearly zero sense.

Or you could read the manuals as I recommended several times. Read carefully and you could even see some interesting type of implementation they used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
And still you haven't come to a conclusion if all those algorithms have interpolated delays or not... because you haven't tested them... but you think they are. Good luck!
Wrong: I know they (some) are as I have hands on experience with editing and listening to KDFX, including using the internal LFOs within the recommended ranges for applications where you want a realistic reverbs, as well as using the non-recommended ranges higher up where you can get effects like Chorusing, etc... I did that probably on the first day of getting KDFX installed - two decades ago, and there were no glitches at the time as you were so sure there would be. You, on the other hand, still don't know or perhaps you don't even want to know: you're still assuming they aren't. If you read the manual carefully, you'd also see which are and which aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
It doesn't take any knowledge of any product to find out that, just being humble, shut up, do the tests and THEN reporting the findings.
Here again, follow your own advice... Convince yourself with your own eyes and ears and your own setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
Trust me, you didn't know about interpolation before learning from me! Synthesis on the Kurzs ain't the point at all here.
You are ignoring the fact that several DSP units in the V.A.S.T. CAN be used within an effects chain. This is without having to write any code at all. Therefore, to me within my goals as described in Post 1, this is SUPREMELY important.

Trust me, I've been using these very same interpolated delays and reverbs for decades. I already told you I made instrument panels for realtime and sequenced control of KDFX and I didn't find any glitches - that was ages ago. I had done these for the more complex Reverbs and Delays.

Wrong also about me learning interpolation from you. I had already seen interpolation mentioned in several threads. What I learned from you is that these interpolation of delays in Lexicons is probably what people like in the Reverbs. There's a nuance there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis ➑️
Those demos? I feel sorry for those guys who made the KSP8... some of the worst demos ever made on you tube. Too much talking, bad levels, playing totally unfit... just no....
There are sound demos accessible from Kurzweil.com - you'll have to look for legacy products (same thing for K2500 and KDFX), or check their soundcloud page.

You could buy Saint Luminus's Rumour and make new demos, but I guess you find it more enjoyable to ego trip...

Well don't ego trip too much: you were wrong about me not being to modulate my reverbs and delays as I want them. You were therefore, also wrong in your assumption about Kurzweil's effects not having modulated effects. Now you're also wrong about me not knowing (it's you who still doesn't know) whether they are.

They (some - there are a few of them) were since Day 1 of the KDFX release.

Here's another tip:

There are successors to KSP8. These are found in the newer V.A.S.T. synths (PC3, PC4, Forte, K2700). Way more powerful so way more chaining possible, no surround, easier to set up in outboard mode than the K2500/K2600, easier to find than K2500 + KDFX or a KSP8...

Last edited by YashN; 2 weeks ago at 12:33 AM..
πŸ“ Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump