The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
What is the current way to distribute music and get paid?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2191
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
The first step is to learn to feel optomistic. You won't get anywhere without it now (no-ones going to come to offer that deal from nowhere).

That sounds daft but it's doable - I practice it sometimes, first experienced it at the gym when wanting to stop on the treadmill I decided to just fool myself into enjoying the sensations, stop judging them and just be with the feeling - the aching was the feeling of doing my body good etc, changing body stance, head up, looking into the sky (there was a window) and opening my eyes more so I feel more awake. I could only sustain it for a few mins before reverting back to habitual thinking... but then notice that and try again. It's a wierd feeling - like acting but with a real emotion/sensation happening. I apply it to the mild depression and anxiety I've had for probably 30 years - it can get you out of a hole for just enough time. If you can feel the emotion when singing a sad song (as I often do), then you have the ability to feel the positivity of a happy song or thought for a while too.
Nice little post. Faith is KNOWING something will happen. Wishing and hoping are totally,totally different things. This 'knowing' is not in HOW you will get there; but it is in the actual process/action of moving tenaciously to a given doable goal that is under constant re-evaluation and re-setting of ones new situation and perspective. (No matter what the odds may be) The journey is ALL. The journey is the destination. (I sound like an idiot!)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2192
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
String people along and they'll keep the faith. Tell them the truth so their destiny is in their hands and they'll scream and shout blue murder.
The former is why I hate how the music business has always sold people re: naive teens and twentysomethings the "dream" of "making it" with little to no idea of the work involved (although I ain't a fervent believer in the "hard work" spiel people parrot as many people work hard in various fields only to see literally nothing to show for it) and the latter is why I advocate for people telling the truth of how the business works in today's era, and not in the personal "I'm a former (insert genre type of artist) who didn't "make it" the way I hoped for so the business is an enemy to me (even though there are no friends in business, period)."
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2193
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Not to mention those teens and twenty-somethings are cheaper to buy out than a long-established artist with experience.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2194
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopol ➡️
Your attempt at establishing your superiority by stating you worked with big labels does not impress me. Nor does it do you any favors.

I’m not saying they’re paying for positions on the list. I’m saying they’re paying to get on it.
Of course it has always been the case that the business tells us what to listen to.
It’s not like radio decided which songs were to be played. They did get paid to play them though.
Today it’s just more plainly obvious. The “top lists” don’t mean a thing, because they got zero to do with peoples opinions.
Same goes for the “trending” list. They’re not trending until they get on that list, by way of paying labels.
It’s all a sham and totally misleading. False advertising if you will.
And that’s why we’re forced to hear the same crap over and over on Spotify. Every song sound the same. You’re lucky if you find a song like Faded among them.

That being said. You still do get to find songs like Faded. Maybe thanks to labels. But I seriously doubt that.
Any independent bedroom producer could create a great song. And they still don’t get on those lists. Because labels.

So, it’s all horse****.

And all those poor suckers deluding themselves by hoping they’ll get found on these platforms by releasing via aggregators. Their (our) songs get buried faster than you can say die. Never to be found by anyone. Just another scam.
All those sites, aggregators, collabs, what have you, is all about sucking money from dreamers’ hopes. It’s total BS. All of it.

You’re better off just creating your own YouTube channel and self promote from there.

Peace out.
I’m not “establishing superiority”, I’m pointing out I might have a little relevant experience. I couldn’t care less if you’re impressed - but maybe people reading it will understand the levels of personal knowledge.

Rather than guesswork and bitterness.

I don’t disagree with a lot of your points as it happens, but I stand by my original point - you don’t “buy” placements.

There’s plenty of examples of artists becoming successful without major label backing (I have a friend doing it right now)...but sooner or later you do need the clout to get to the top levels.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2195
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame ➡️
@ IM WHO YOU THINK perhaps I've read too many horror stories of all the corrupt **** in the industry, I wish I could be an optimist about the business. I pray that I can change that part of me.
There's good and bad in every career.
Personally I think it was a balance in the record business.
Now the tech platforms are openly exploiting musicians.
A tiny handful of 'entrepreneurs' are becoming multi-millionaires while the creators are working for pennies.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2196
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame ➡️
The former is why I hate how the music business has always sold people re: naive teens and twentysomethings the "dream" of "making it" with little to no idea of the work involved
Did they though?
It seems far worse now.
Since the internet we've had 'The Voice', 'America's Got Talent' etc...
If you look around Youtube there are hundreds of extremely successful channels about how to be rich and famous in the music industry, or just how gto get more streams on Spotify, how to get more followers on Instagram.
People with little knowledge or experience are earning good money by peddling impossible dreams on Youtube.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2197
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Did they though?
It seems far worse now.
Since the internet we've had 'The Voice', 'America's Got Talent' etc...
If you look around Youtube there are hundreds of extremely successful channels about how to be rich and famous in the music industry, or just how gto get more streams on Spotify, how to get more followers on Instagram.
People with little knowledge or experience are earning good money by peddling impossible dreams on Youtube.
I don't think that's to do with the music industry per se.

People are making Millions if not billions in some cases, selling every dream - Tim Robbins for example.

There's more money in teaching property managment and house flipping than there probably is in actually doing it... I have a couple of friends who are hooked on doing £2000 courses here and £2000 courses there. "its an investment". They are actively doing up houses and managing property but I dont think theyre seeing the returns promised by the courses.. it ends up just hard graft.

Thousands of courses out there with slick marketting promising to grow your business and hit the big time - there's not room for everyone who attends to succeed. It's based on the fallacy of infinite growth.. that can only happen if you get ahead of inflation, but it catches up eventually on average.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2198
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopol ➡️
But getting on the lists are, if even indirectly, payed for. Being the big labels, on Spotify and others, own those lists. And they don’t own them for free.
There are a couple of independent playlists curated by major labels - Island have one for example.

But as far as New Music Friday, or any of the other Spotify lists - majors can't "buy" or guarantee a place on those lists.

What majors do have is the open door - they'll generally have regular meetings with Spotify A+R, be playing them new acts and new releases, and they can generally guarantee that big artist XXX will get a placement. It's not guaranteed though - they can't just shove a new signing at spotify and automatically get it playlisted. If it's not rated, or unproven, the streaming services can say no.

It's like the traditional model - a major can put their artist on all the shows, can get in to meet the production staff @ radio and press them to play their acts - but they can't "buy" a chart position. All they can do is give it the best possible chance of succeeding.

As I said - this comes from 1st hand experience, I've been with major label artists when they've found out they've been listed, or when they've not been. I've chatted with their management, and the streaming management team (one of my best friends is former Spotify/Apple liason for a major).

Quote:
And yes, I agree that it is fully possible to become successful as an independent.
Billie Eilish is an excellent example of that, as she was found through a song she released on SoundCloud.
But although the possibilities are there, they’re still slim to none through channels offering services for money.
SoundCloud is free, as is YouTube, and your chances are just as good on those platforms.
"found" but still became successful through major label effort. I view her as a major label artist, not really someone independent who became successful prior to signing. Her career has been managed every step of the way, even if she does have more input into the product than many other people at that stage of the career.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2199
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Spotify is one of the leading streaming platforms. the audience at Spotify is definitely a popular music audience. Whether that's popular RnB, popular Rock, popular Country or popular Hip-Hop.
It's very hard to get any traction at Spotify if you do not fit the young, popular stereotype, or the established older artist staple.
Less popular music genres, or artists less concerned about their public image or social media following might as well not worry about Spotify. It's a waste of energy.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2200
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Talking of buying chart positions, Lee Parsons who runs Ditto Music holds the record for getting the first unsigned band and first non-physical release to ever chart into the Top 40 in the UK.... Effectively "bought" by getting family members to buy reduced price pre-paid sim cards and using their value to buy downloads of the track. Working through a big box of them, his mum and brother managed to register enough downloads to get the band in the charts.. no 31

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koopa_(band)

Those were the days.. perhaps there are simliar schemes that new shifts in technology bring about?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2201
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Less popular music genres, or artists less concerned about their public image or social media following might as well not worry about Spotify. It's a waste of energy.
It entirely depends what you want Spotify to do for you.

If you want to use Spotify to give people world-wide access to your music then it's perfect for it.

You use it's strengths for your own purpose.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2202
Lives for gear
 
IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
There are a couple of independent playlists curated by major labels - Island have one for example.

But as far as New Music Friday, or any of the other Spotify lists - majors can't "buy" or guarantee a place on those lists.

What majors do have is the open door - they'll generally have regular meetings with Spotify A+R, be playing them new acts and new releases, and they can generally guarantee that big artist XXX will get a placement. It's not guaranteed though - they can't just shove a new signing at spotify and automatically get it playlisted. If it's not rated, or unproven, the streaming services can say no.

It's like the traditional model - a major can put their artist on all the shows, can get in to meet the production staff @ radio and press them to play their acts - but they can't "buy" a chart position. All they can do is give it the best possible chance of succeeding.

As I said - this comes from 1st hand experience, I've been with major label artists when they've found out they've been listed, or when they've not been. I've chatted with their management, and the streaming management team (one of my best friends is former Spotify/Apple liason for a major).



"found" but still became successful through major label effort. I view her as a major label artist, not really someone independent who became successful prior to signing. Her career has been managed every step of the way, even if she does have more input into the product than many other people at that stage of the career.
Isnt this like saying radio isn't paid for and program managers don't get paid cash?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2203
Deleted 0dfcc1b
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedannemann ➡️
Same way it's always been. Only in partnership with an established major label - everything else is a gimmick. Apple Music has 45 million songs in their catalog, Spotify has 30 million (status 2020). How the hell do you want to stand out from this unmanageable noise on your own? This is only possible with partnerships.

CDs? Excuse, how old are you? I'm an old bag and bought my last CD in 2009. My computers, my car, my home cinema have not had a drive for many years. My godchild doesn't even know what a CD is anymore. You should look around in the real world and see how music is consumed today.

The game is the same, but the medium and distribution have changed.


And the US are even behind in comparison to European countries for example where sales are even lower...
I agree, but hate that word "consume", and it's strange to me people started to parrot that word because the media kept labeling everyone as such years ago.

One doesn't "consume" music", you listen to it.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2204
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
The economic model is shifting. (look up millennial economics) Look at what is hot today - Uber, Lift - AirBNB/rentals - Spotify VS Car ownership - House ownership - Music players etc. etc.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2205
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
It's a bit like having a shop down a back alley in an area where no-one goes shopping.... how is anyone going to know you're there?

The internet does the same for you and your music as it does for a niche shop stuck down an alley in the middle of s small town. You can create a presence onine and drive people, traffic to that store. Then your shop is your outlet, work place and you don't need real footfall.

As with any shop, you have to find your customers see where they go, find other similar shops and advertise to their customers. The more platforms your shop is on: Ebay, Etsy, Amazon, Made etc etc the increasing number of audiences your shop is exposed to, and each platform has it's own way of advertising your store to reach markets.

Find similar music that is more successful - see where their fans discover them, where discussions take place, drive traffic from people searching for them to you all also etc etc. Upsell your work so people will say buy two albums for significantly less than if they buy them seperately etc..

The problem with relying on websites like Bandcamp is that there is no search optimisation you can do. And even if someone goes to Bandcamp to search for you... the likelyhood is many will get distracted by all the other glittery things to look at in the same store. A personal website gives you control over driving some of the traffic and how people find you.


I notice that if you search for say "Experimental music Bandcamp" the top result gives you Bandcamp's highlighted new releases and then under that featured vinyl.... So having vinyl for sale can bering you to prominence - it certainly draws me in to their sleeve designs and then on to hear what the music sounds like.

All sorts of things like that make a difference.
Yeah I get and agree with everything you’ve said there. I use Bandcamp as I find it easy to deal with, they pay out every time someone buys something so no ‘maximum before pay out’ thing going on and eventually I could point a web address to it so that becomes my website. Like I said, it really doesn’t matter where the music is hosted (although I suppose it’s better to be everywhere - Spotify, iTunes etc) it’s pointing people towards that back alley shop you mention. I need to find the right people and get them there. That’s where I struggle and get lazy because I don’t like doing it and I’m not very good at it either.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2206
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
"You can not foresee the future; if the future has not been been decided yet" PJ 2020 quote.

People often sell themselves short on what they can actually bring to the table when deciding deciding the future of industries. (or at least what commerce a single person can actually have or enforce or offer as it pertains to themselves) It can be as bleak or bright as we make it. We have to realize we are generally 'playing the game' of business with their rules and their missions without even knowing the extent of their thought. Every change leads to an opportunity. And the bigger the change or shift - the bigger the opportunity. Tech companies see this clearly. FB and YT etc. are nothing more than choice-stimulus-reaction CYCLE unbeknownst to the masses; this IS the game of how they created social media giants and tech giants who are determining the future of the world. Call it Pavlovian or why people play slot machines etc. I will pump the brakes here... but just re-magnifying how SIMPLE it really is. It is not rocket science. It is more like studying modern human psychological sales. Yea you can peddle cruddy/crap filler songs - yet a song that interacts real well (in it's genre and it's fan base) already has a built in destiny...
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2207
Gear Addict
 
denstrow's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Just out of curiosity, what kind of genres do people here make? I think that plays a role, even if indeed any niche is game nowadays.

I do psytrance, techno and electronica mostly - and not the popular kind.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2208
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by denstrow ➡️
Just out of curiosity, what kind of genres do people here make? I think that plays a role, even if indeed any niche is game nowadays.

I do psytrance, techno and electronica mostly - and not the popular kind.
Multi genre - focusing mainly on the the highly popular ones
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2209
Lives for gear
 
IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_martin ➡️
I agree, but hate that word "consume", and it's strange to me people started to parrot that word because the media kept labeling everyone as such years ago.

One doesn't "consume" music", you listen to it.
Well, there's a Consumer price index thats more than a few years old.

Don't you consume energy, electricity, internet service?

It's usage. You do consume music. We should stop acting like recorded music isn't a product.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2210
Lives for gear
 
AfterViewer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
We are, more or less, rather complicated sponges in our own rite.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2211
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK ➡️
... It's usage. You do consume music. We should stop acting like recorded music isn't a product.
maybe you guys could stop acting like the "value" of recorded music is still dictated by the fact that it was once a physical product (mainly out of necessity) that was basically price-fixed to sell for a certain amount?

one thought that just came to mind is the current lack of "value" in music that in the past was artificially inflated by the physical product itself. i'll bet that a large percentage of those No Limit, etc releases sold simply due to those "super bling" photoshop albums covers. didn't matter what was on it, that packaging/branding had value greater than the music itself. we've seen this sort of thing with all types of genres/artists/labels, in all sorts of markets/products. i think those days are gone (at least in music), it's a lot harder to stand out from the rest when you're all just a name on a list in an app.


i'll ask again though...

what price should people be paying to "consume" someone's music, and how should they pay? other than continuously complaining about Spotify and streaming, do you guys actually have any solution in mind? does everybody still need a label and a recording budget? how much do you expect to make?

i don't think many of these complaints add up to much when the solution isn't going to satisfy you either.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2212
Lives for gear
 
IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc ➡️
maybe you guys could stop acting like the "value" of recorded music is still dictated by the fact that it was once a physical product (mainly out of necessity) that was basically price-fixed to sell for a certain amount?

one thought that just came to mind is the current lack of "value" in music that in the past was artificially inflated by the physical product itself. i'll bet that a large percentage of those No Limit, etc releases sold simply due to those "super bling" photoshop albums covers. didn't matter what was on it, that packaging/branding had value greater than the music itself. we've seen this sort of thing with all types of genres/artists/labels, in all sorts of markets/products. i think those days are gone (at least in music), it's a lot harder to stand out from the rest when you're all just a name on a list in an app.


i'll ask again though...

what price should people be paying to "consume" someone's music, and how should they pay? other than continuously complaining about Spotify and streaming, do you guys actually have any solution in mind? does everybody still need a label and a recording budget? how much do you expect to make?

i don't think many of these complaints add up to much when the solution isn't going to satisfy you either.
I
I don't think pen and pixel diamonds had value. I can't give my opinion on No Limit publicly, because of my ties/friendship with the artists. But I'll say this. Plenty of other labels made similar covers and sold nothing. If the value was the covers, they'd all sell.

Your assumption that the value was artificially inflated ignores basic economic theory. Why would there be a demand for it at an artificially inflated price?

I think you are asking questions that can't be answered at this point. Currently we are where we are. It's difficult to make a prediction on where we are headed. And, If I could predict it, I'd exploit it for profit instead of typing it here.

I'm betting that music is undervalued. Others disagree., and time will tell us who's bet was right.
.

Ive never thought that everybody needed a label and a recording budget. So , my answer would be no. I think labels have provided value in the past in ways that they still would today, but I don't see how you'd ever come close to recouping in the current model.

It's difficult to say what the value should be. Right now it's a product obtainable for practically nothing. It's impossible to tell you an equilibrium price in the current environment. My bet is that this current economic environment won't sustain itself and that it will change. It's not easy to say what it will change to.

So it doesn't matter how many times you state that you'll ask again. It's next to impossible to answer what you are asking objectively.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2213
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK ➡️
Isnt this like saying radio isn't paid for and program managers don't get paid cash?
I can't comment about other markets, or years prior - but no, that doesn't happen over here. It doesn't need to as far as the majors are concerned - they've already got the network in place.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2214
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK ➡️

I'm betting that music is undervalued. Others disagree., and time will tell us who's bet was right.
.
Again, none of these people can explain why actors and film-makers are paid. And why we don't just expect them to get paid only for live theatre. It's hypocritical of course.
People claim the price of recorded music was artificially inflated. I don't know. It took Fleetwood Mac a year f studios time to produce Rumours. Monetarily the same with Pink Floyd. They spent a fortune making Dark Side Of The Moon.

If other similar art forms that can be easily shared digitally - like movies and television stop paying actors, electricians, cinematographers, directors and editors, or pay only $5000 for 6 months work, I will happily accept the same pay rate.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2215
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK ➡️
I never looked at it as any different from any other business. You create a product, you market it, you sell it for profit.

There's corruption wherever there's money.
This may be your problem in life. It is not a product. (At least not for music makers and fans of the music. Maybe it is for people that work in marketing and sales in music). You are not making sneakers or a IKEA lamp. Music is a highly personalized culture product that transcends the feeling of buying just any new product. You have to believe in a connection that goes much deeper than just product if you are going to even try to build a fan base that follows you on something like bandcamp and automatically buys every release you put out there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame ➡️
The former is why I hate how the music business has always sold people re: naive teens and twentysomethings the "dream" of "making it" with little to no idea of the work involved (although I ain't a fervent believer in the "hard work" spiel people parrot as many people work hard in various fields only to see literally nothing to show for it) and the latter is why I advocate for people telling the truth of how the business works in today's era, and not in the personal "I'm a former (insert genre type of artist) who didn't "make it" the way I hoped for so the business is an enemy to me (even though there are no friends in business, period)."
I don''t know if I agree with this. I get the impression new artists are very savvy when it comes to competition, marketing and promotion of their music in the modern era. There might be some very young disconnected dreamers in their teens, but it seems once they get their act together and start releasing good releases, they are in their mid to late 20s and are very aware.

Just my 2 cents.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2216
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso ➡️
Spotify is one of the leading streaming platforms. the audience at Spotify is definitely a popular music audience. Whether that's popular RnB, popular Rock, popular Country or popular Hip-Hop.
It's very hard to get any traction at Spotify if you do not fit the young, popular stereotype, or the established older artist staple.
Less popular music genres, or artists less concerned about their public image or social media following might as well not worry about Spotify. It's a waste of energy.
I see all the artists I like and follow are on all the platforms, including Spotify. Spotify is very relevant to all genres and audiences, not just young people and trendy styles and genres. You could also make the case that its more relevant to non-young and non-trendy because the young and trendy are very tech savvy and are able to navigate all sorts of weird platforms to get to music they like without paying. The spotify ecosystem and platforms is all focused on a very convenient and user friendly experience and you can bet there is a gazillion non trendy customers that just pay their sub free and dial in their favorite oldies without a care in the world.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2217
Lives for gear
 
IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
I can't comment about other markets, or years prior - but no, that doesn't happen over here. It doesn't need to as far as the majors are concerned - they've already got the network in place.
I can only comment on the US. The network is definitely in place, but that doesn't stop payola. It never has, and I don't think it ever will.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2218
Lives for gear
 
IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
This may be your problem in life. It is not a product. (At least not for music makers and fans of the music. Maybe it is for people that work in marketing and sales in music). You are not making sneakers or a IKEA lamp. Music is a highly personalized culture product that transcends the feeling of buying just any new product. You have to believe in a connection that goes much deeper than just product if you are going to even try to build a fan base that follows you on something like bandcamp and automatically buys every release you put out there.




I don''t know if I agree with this. I get the impression new artists are very savvy when it comes to competition, marketing and promotion of their music in the modern era. There might be some very young disconnected dreamers in their teens, but it seems once they get their act together and start releasing good releases, they are in their mid to late 20s and are very aware.

Just my 2 cents.
Well, I won't discuss your "problem in life," since I don't know you. As I read this, I think my problem in life, as is relates to this is that instead of blocking your posts, I've continued discussion with someone who would make that statement part of a discussion on music.

The moment you go in business, you are selling a product. All of what you feel about it doesn't change that. You can feel as much as you choose to and sell nothing. You can believe in a connection and sell nothing.

You are marketing something that people feel a connection to, but many products cause consumers to feel connected to them.

For that matter many view sneakers as a personalized culture. For others, it's a sneaker and it's equivalent to an Ikea lamp.

Because you feel it's different than other products, doesn't make it true.

And from a business stand point, you're creating it, marketing it, and expecting to sell it for a profit.

(I think it goes without saying that this may/may not happen, but if you don't expect to profit, and you are investing/going into business, I don't want your business advice.)





It's odd that if I speak of the cultural and monetary value of music, you'll tell me that music has 0 value. If I discuss recorded music as a product, you tell how it may be my problem in life that I see music as like any other product in the sense that you create it, market it and expect to sell it for a profit.
This leads me to just one question.


Why exactly are we having a discussion?

Last edited by IM WHO YOU THINK; 4 weeks ago at 03:25 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2219
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➡️
But as far as New Music Friday, or any of the other Spotify lists - majors can't "buy" or guarantee a place on those lists.
Well, they are either bought or you play the 1 in a 100 million lottery chance of getting on a known and reputable curated list. Might as well try to win a new car while you are at it.

The quality and merit of your music has little to do with whether you get listed. The last I heard, what feeds the manually curated playlists is staff follow trend setting web sites and blogs to determined what gets into the playlist. They don't actually listen to all the music and analyze it for its worth. So if your story does not merit space on Pitchfork or Vice magazine, your effort at music or creativity is deemed pointless. In some sense, it seems that even though there are more tools at your disposal to promote yourself and your music, your chances of getting heard are even less than they were pre-Internet days. There is just too much noise and even what is deemed modern, current. and trendy becomes a wash of sameness .

The laws of what used to work in the pre-Internet days still apply, but the longevity is much shorter. Is there a cute girl on the cover? Is there something shocking to see?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #2220
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK ➡️
Well, I won't discuss your "problem in life," since I don't know you. As I read this, I think my problem in life, as is relates to this is that instead of blocking your posts, I've continued discussion with someone who would make that statement part of a discussion on music.

The moment you go in business, you are selling a product. All of what you feel about it doesn't change that. You can feel as much as you choose to and sell nothing. You can believe in a connection and sell nothing.

You are marketing something that people feel a connection to, but many products cause consumers to feel connected to them.

For that matter many view sneakers as a personalized culture. For others, it's a sneaker and it's equivalent to an Ikea lamp.

Because you feel it's different than other products, doesn't make it true.

And from a business stand point, you're creating it, marketing it, and expecting to sell it for a profit.

(I think it goes without saying that this may/may not happen, but if you don't expect to profit, and you are investing/going into business, I don't want your business advice.)





It's odd that if I speak of the cultural and monetary value of music, you'll tell me that music has 0 value. If I discuss recorded music as a product, you tell how it may be my problem in life that I see music as like any other product in the sense that you create it, market it and expect to sell it for a profit.
This leads me to just one question.


Why exactly are we having a discussion?
Go ahead a block.

No, music is not "a product" for music makers. It might be if you own a record store and stock shelves of random music products and you don't really give a **** what you stock as all you care about is moving as much product as you can.

When classical super fan X or Coldplay super fan Y buys a new release, they don't go to their friends, "wow.. hey, check out the shiny CD I bought or the blackness of the laquer of the LP I just bought". To them they bought something that is highly personal and emotional. What drives music fandom (and this includes other forms of cultural and art fandoms) is peoples emotional attachment to the actual content.

Beatles fans are attached emotionally to the Beatles. Eddie Van Halen fans are attached emotionally to Van Halen records (probably the golden late 70s and early 80s stuff more so than latter day works). And I think to a large extend, the artists are emotionally attached to the records they created. Probably the marketing and sales people at their record labels may not be as much. I don't know.

Either way, I firmly believe a music release is a very different sort of item than buying a new Apple Macbook. You can easliy brag about how fast the M1 processor is or the graphics -- but its a whole different thing to bragging about how U2's Joshua Tree is the greatest album ever released and how it meant so much to you. No will gives a **** unless they happen to be a U2 super fan of equal caliber that liked that release. Either way, its not just a product that was released in the late 80s to them. It changed their life and has meaning to them.
📝 Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump