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Samplitude ProX vs SONAR 2x Upgrade?
Old 23rd September 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Samplitude ProX vs SONAR 2x Upgrade?

I was originally a Cakewalk Pro Audio user and I upgraded through Sonar 1 XL (~2001), but at that time Samplitude was light years ahead in audio editing and sound quality. I have been with Samplitude (-11) past 5 years, but am hesitant to upgrade to ProX because I am not particularly interested in new features, and their new pricing scheme dumps "Pro" users into the consumer track regarding upgrades in the future.



Looking at cakewalk site, it appears I am eligible for a $199 upgrade to Sonar 2x Producer! (That was a surprise to me.)

I was not able to find a demo to help me answer the question.

I am looking for "composition" features like non-linear sequencing and am also willing to entertain a new workflow.

Did sonar fix the transport? In the old days you couldn't arm/disarm a track while playing back which gave the program a very modal feel. Also, back then, the program felt like a mismatched quilt with different pieces not well integrated. It really put me off.

The sonar video shows a sequencer that appears to be similar to Samplitude with a lesser feature set, but it may be better suited to composition, as it appears they have added some sampling/triggering capabilities like Ableton.

Is there a demo? Is this something I should be checking out for $200 as another option for composing? I will still use Samplitude moving forward, I am not unhappy with it, I am just looking for new workflow ideas and new tools.
Old 23rd September 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I used Cakewalk in the MQX days, and later I was part of their beta team. Haven't looked at it in probably ten years but I always admired their business plan and their attempt to keep abreast of what customers want and really can use, verses just tossing in every feature under the sun. I've heard a lot of grumblings about Sonar in the last couple of years, so before I would commit, I would spend some serious time on their support site and try to determine if these grumblings had a basis in fact that would affect the way that I work. But from my old experience with Cakewalk and Sonar, if I were to want to change DAWs, Sonar would be on my list. I'd also have to look again at Vegas which had a nice clean interface when I was inovled with Sonic Foundry.

In terms of mature DAW software in general, it seems that every time there is an update, the updates tend to be in specific areas. These areas are not always what every user wants to see, and I see a number of users then looking for some other answer, assuming that their tool is planning to leave them behind. But then the -next- update comes along, with features specific to -their- needs, and a different bunch of users feels dissed. So I've sat down for the long haul with Samp/Sequoia, as it offers me the tools that I need and I like their future vision, through every change is not one that helps me.
Old 24th September 2012
  #3
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Paul in SoCal's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreChris ➑️
I am looking for "composition" features like non-linear sequencing and am also willing to entertain a new workflow.
Sonar has an arranger page that looks a lot like Ableton Live's. Pretty cool.

Quote:
Did sonar fix the transport? In the old days you couldn't arm/disarm a track while playing back which gave the program a very modal feel. Also, back then, the program felt like a mismatched quilt with different pieces not well integrated. It really put me off.
No longer an issue.

Quote:
The sonar video shows a sequencer that appears to be similar to Samplitude with a lesser feature set, but it may be better suited to composition, as it appears they have added some sampling/triggering capabilities like Ableton.
Sonar's sequencing/MIDI features are only second to Cubase's.

Quote:
Is there a demo? Is this something I should be checking out for $200 as another option for composing? I will still use Samplitude moving forward, I am not unhappy with it, I am just looking for new workflow ideas and new tools.
Nothing wrong with using two DAW's for the best they can offer. I use Cubase and Sonar, always up-to-date on current versions (6.5 and X2.)
Old 25th September 2012
  #4
Gear Addict
 
TimDolbear's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreChris ➑️
but am hesitant to upgrade to ProX because I am not particularly interested in new features, and their new pricing scheme dumps "Pro" users into the consumer track regarding upgrades in the future.

This is so not true. Don't buy into the bull that is thrown around on the Samplitude forum. The VP of Pro Audio posted very clearly that if you get Pro X and then feel you are missing anything when the next version comes out, that you will be able to upgrade to Suites for only the difference you would have paid ($160). Why are we offering this? because of the panic that users made up that they are being split into a lower tier. As I said before Pro X is and will continue to be the main DAW for Pro audio/music production.

Sorry you are buying into the panic and mis-information.
Old 25th September 2012
  #5
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muziksculp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I wish Samplitude Pro X had a non-linear / arranger type feature.

Unfortunately, it is still restricted to old-fashioned linear editing. That's one major reason I did not buy it as a second DAW option to Cubase 6.5 (which offers the (Arranger Track) , it is not the greatest non-linear editing environment, but is surely better than being restricted to purely linear copy-paste editing environment.

Looks like Sonar X2 offers a good non-linear editing feature, but I'm not sure I want to venture into Sonar just for that.

I would love to see Samplitude Pro X get a non-linear/arranging feature similar to Sonar X2, or Live. either via an update, or maybe in the next version.

Meanwhile, I will check out what Sonar X2 has to offer, I never looked carefully into Sonar X1. but looks like Sonar X2 has a lot to offer.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
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Paul in SoCal's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp ➑️
Unfortunately, it is still restricted to old-fashioned linear editing. That's one major reason I did not buy it as a second DAW option to Cubase 6.5 (which offers the (Arranger Track) , it is not the greatest non-linear editing environment, but is surely better than being restricted to purely linear copy-paste editing environment.
For the record, Sonar's matrix editor puts Cubase's arranger track to utter shame.

But then again, Sonar doesn't have note expression (which is something once you learn how to use it, you can't live without it...) and its scoring page is basically unusable, unlike Cubase's, which is a decent scoring editor (of course if you need professionally-printed music, look for dedicated apps like Sibelius or Finale.)

Now you see why I'm using two DAW's and Sibelius.
Old 25th September 2012
  #7
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Maybe Bitwig Studio is what you want. I'll just leave this here:

http://www.bitwig.com/bitwig_studio.php
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #8
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muziksculp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjji ➑️
Maybe Bitwig Studio is what you want. I'll just leave this here:

Bitwig | Bitwig Studio
Yes, it is !

Actually Bitwig Studio is what I'm waiting for.

But... it will be at version 1.0 , currently taking a long while to beta-test it.
So, a bit of an unknown so far.

But, if it delivers what they promise, and is very stable, I wouldn't complain, and go for it as an optional second DAW to complement Cubase 6.5

Cheers,
Muziksculp
Old 26th September 2012
  #9
Gear Addict
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Them taking a while on the beta is probably a good thing. Better later and complete than earlier and unstable. If you read the review on the news section, it seems to be pretty stable except for the hybrid tracks which aren't working yet.
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimDolbear ➑️
This is so not true. Don't buy into the bull that is thrown around on the Samplitude forum. The VP of Pro Audio posted very clearly that if you get Pro X and then feel you are missing anything when the next version comes out, that you will be able to upgrade to Suites for only the difference you would have paid ($160). Why are we offering this? because of the panic that users made up that they are being split into a lower tier. As I said before Pro X is and will continue to be the main DAW for Pro audio/music production.

Sorry you are buying into the panic and mis-information.
Hi Tim,

You have given me good support in the past for Samplitude, is this a new policy for Samp users who upgrade? Please correct the following if it is wrong.

My understanding was that Samp Pro 11 users did not have to upgrade to the higher tier "Suites" version of Pro-X, that for the first release of Pro-X, we would gain downloadable 64bit versions of the modelling suite for our $200 upgrade. There was also a special offer last year for first adopters who would get a 64bit version of spectral editing(?) or some other feature set not normally available in ProX but in the higher "suites" version.

However, moving forward we would still be on the "base" upgrade track, even though we got initial versions of the AM suite in 64 bits, we wouldnt have Independence or any of the other new suite features moving forward. So if they added a new product to the am-suite, or updated any of the existing ones, we would not have that.

Besides the complexity of the move, this just seemed strange to me. We bought in to Samplitude Pro with a 1K price of entry and paid for (relatively high price) upgrades over the years.

Then when the new pricing comes out, ProX base is a $500 package which we have to spend $200 to upgrade to. What makes this really bad is that the prior classic users who spent much less, get the same $200 upgrade price.

The 1K suites package (which is equivalent to prior "Pro" version) now costs something like $360 for us to upgrade. The only "new" major feature in suites that Pro users did not have before was Independence Sampler, which is not at all appealing to someone who already owns Komplete. So we are basically being forced to pay ~$360 to keep the higher tier functionality, when all we are getting is (for most of us who have been in the Daw world for a while), a relatively useless soft sampler. Basically I have to pay $160 for a soft sampler that I will probably never use, just to maintain my upper tier status.

They seem to forget that Pro users paid 1K for the program -- why didn't they just put us into the 1K Suites tier? Even having to pay $360 for this feels like robbery, especially considering our upgrade to the base package is the same as non-pro users.

Please correct any inaccuracies in what I am saying. I don't hold you any ill will, but this was a kick in the gut. If they had just maintained the tiers, I think everyone would have happily migrated across.
Old 26th September 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Why not demo both and make your own choice? One has a history of stability and one does not. One has a gapless audio engine and one does not. One seems to be more easier to use VI's than the other. One's layout seems to be simpler than the other.
Old 17th October 2012
  #12
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
i switched from ProTools after spending almost $30000 when then screwed with their HD SYSTEM no big loss, i couldnt get through a song without it freezing, slowing, or crashing. Industry standard my ass. if you tell a lie often enough people will believe it. first i switched to studio one pro with a 24.4.2 board and 2 UAD accellerator cards. it was heaven; in the 6 months ive had the software its never frozen, crashed or slowed....ever. it runs at about 3 times the speed of PT and cost about $8000. I was getting a lot of sonar files from clients. Im not a hobbiest im a pro producer/writer so I bought Sonar 1x which is fabulous. I was then told i could upgrade to X2 Producer for free because i bought it in october. i cant imagine what 2 will be like. Between studio one and sonar x1 I can do more than i could ever do with PT and i mused that for 15years. both sonar and studio one both play NI VSTs. i highly recommend them. you can download studio one oro free for 30 days to see if you like it. the full version including all content. thats my 2 cents. thank you all for listening
Old 17th November 2012
  #13
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I've been reading these so and so vs whatever and laughing my arse off. I thought I was dealing with intelligent people. The best. Presonus studio one artist vs protools 10. That's like comparing a Ferrari to a 1964 Morris minor. Why the hell would you compare Avids newest (top) DAW with presonus low end DAW? That's just plane stupid. Now protools 10 with presonus studio one 2 professional and we have a compertition. I've used and own both. Protools crashes, freezes, slows down and dies the mat peculiar things I've ever seen a "pro DAW" do in my life and that's the HD version. I was recommended by my music store rep Studio one one pro. Reluctantly I agreed after he said if it's not better than prom tools I'll take them both back full,refund. Ok, so nothing to lose.

It's been 3 months now studio one pro has NEVER CRASHED OR NEEDED TO BE RESTARTED. IT'S NEVER SLOWED AT A CRITICAL MOMENT. NEVER FROZEN. It's easier to usethan pro tools. Drag an instrument into the record region and it creates it's own track, configures itself and is ready to go. Protools earth earth shattering clip edit or whatever the hell they called it is there and has been since version one . Which makes Avid liars. I've had 3 updates. I mean real up dates including new features .......all free. 2.5 is combining out soon with 120 new features including the ability to turn a midi track town audio track at a single mouse click. Do your edits, save your first midi track then convert your new audio track back to midi. Avid cant do that, and thats really useful. And to top it off it's free. Studio one had a dedicated mastering page that is worth the price of the software. It's plugins are fabulous, far better than Avids and .......ready after 4 years they have a 64 bit version! They are in a deal with UAD to workmwith their dsp accelerator and power plugins. People.,ive stopped,using protools completely. Its bollocks. Industry standard my arse. If you tell the same lie enough people will believe it. Now Avid have anounced 11 WILL support older interfaces, 003 etc... They've been caught. Just out of curiosity I bought sonat X2 it's brilliant. 20 top shelf synths, brilliant plugins, amazing recording features and I can swap between studio one andback if one as a feature the other doesn't have yet. Thats the perfectDAW. I was a protools guy for 15 years until,it started making me throw up in my own mouth a bit. I will NEVER use or buy another AVID product again. Even the new posthumous Michael Jackson album was recorded on studio one pro . Why? In thevwordsvofvthe producer "it just sounds so much better than pro tools"

Let me just say. I do not work, endorse or have anything to do with presonus, or cakewalk. I just love a company that will,sell you a finished daw for $300 (Β£150) instead of nearlyn$1000
Old 17th November 2012
  #14
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I wish you'd had someone competent to set your rig up for you crai3g - something was obviously seriously wrong because that's not a typical user experience! They record orchestras onto these things...when it's Β£2k/hr in player fees alone you need a working system!

Oh well...least you're happy now. Please don't think this is a typical user experience though - no rig I've ever set up behaves like this unless there's something seriously wrong.
Old 17th November 2012
  #15
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loopy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
@Crai3g -> It's great you found a DAW that you are obviously very satisfied with. Studio One is indeed a fine program and is my choice as well.

That being said, and not knowing your particular Protools rig, I will only comment that something was seriously wrong with that set up for you to experience problems like that. Protools have fallen behind other DAW software in recent years in terms of features, but when set up properly and on approved hardware, it is solid as a rock. If it were not it wouldn't continue to remain an industry standard for too long.

All water under the bridge though.
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