Quantcast
Do bass traps produce noticeable audible difference? - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Do bass traps produce noticeable audible difference?
Old 21st January 2013
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Do bass traps produce noticeable audible difference?

I've learned that bass traps are mainly designed to make the sound in the room smoother, that it does make a real acoustic difference, that is in terms of numbers, graphs, measurements, music production, sound mixing, etc. But since I only watch movies, I'm mainly interested in the audible differences it would produce from the main listening position for movies.

If I would notice a difference, describe to me what kind of sound I'd hear from the bass.

Can you give me an audible description of a smooth sound in a room?

Also, do they allow the subwoofer to blend in better with the speakers?
Old 21st January 2013
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Can you give me an audible description of a smooth sound in a room?
Start the following video at 3:30. It records music (a movie would be the same) with and without treatment.
https://gikacoustics.com/treated-and...istening-room/
Old 25th January 2013
  #3
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Assuming that you're only talking about bass trapping, that the bass trapping adequately addresses the room's needs and that there are no other glaring needs, then I think you'd first notice increased clarity. More detail in the midrange and an apparent reduction in the noise floor. A room that has inadequate bass trapping has a LF resonance that hangs around in the room too long, obscuring low level detail - like ambience.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
GIK Acoustics's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncamorea ➡️
Assuming that you're only talking about bass trapping, that the bass trapping adequately addresses the room's needs and that there are no other glaring needs, then I think you'd first notice increased clarity. More detail in the midrange and an apparent reduction in the noise floor. A room that has inadequate bass trapping has a LF resonance that hangs around in the room too long, obscuring low level detail - like ambience.
Agree'd, but I will add something that many people seem to neglect with home theater set ups:

The main low end in movies are:
1. LFE for things like explosions
2. Music playing in the background (or foreground)
3. Dialogue

No one really minds a few explosions in movies being a bit "boomy" - the problem lies with certain nulls that can happen in the room. This becomes apparent to some people when certain movies seem to have incredibly bass heavy explosions, and others seem to have LFE that just seems really "weak". In general, its probably due to a null at the frequencies - it doesn't matter how powerful your sub is (but placement DOES matter).

Music is a make or break for some in movies, but others don't pay too much attention to the music channels. This would be personal preference (but treatment will certainly make a difference in how music sounds).

The most important area IMO is dialogue. 80-200Hz are important for speech clarity and is typically the largest heard improvement when treating a home theater. Understanding dialogue while things are happening in the background of the movie (or even in your home theater room) is much easier with low frequency treatment.

Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics ➡️
The most important area IMO is dialogue. 80-200Hz are important for speech clarity and is typically the largest heard improvement when treating a home theater.
Right, agreed on the LF null issue you described but since it's more typical for a movie to start without big bass transients and with ambient noise and voice, I thought he's notice that first. We're basically on the same page. In terms of nulls, that gets down to my disclaimer:

"that the bass trapping adequately addresses the room's needs"

And I'm sure you know it's a matter of degrees, highly dependent on the room, system and customer. Some customers absolutely want the boom. It tells them they didn't waste money on a sub. Hopefully, they can become edumacated.
Old 26th January 2013 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
GIK Acoustics's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncamorea ➡️
Right, agreed on the LF null issue you described but since it's more typical for a movie to start without big bass transients and with ambient noise and voice, I thought he's notice that first. We're basically on the same page. In terms of nulls, that gets down to my disclaimer:

"that the bass trapping adequately addresses the room's needs"

And I'm sure you know it's a matter of degrees, highly dependent on the room, system and customer. Some customers absolutely want the boom. It tells them they didn't waste money on a sub. Hopefully, they can become edumacated.
Where do you live? I want to buy you a beer or something. I can never disagree with you. Great points of course.
Old 26th January 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Thanks! I'm near Denver. I just realized you are listed in the US and the UK.
Old 28th January 2013
  #8
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Old 28th January 2013 | Show parent
  #9
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics ➡️
Agree'd, but I will add something that many people seem to neglect with home theater set ups:

The main low end in movies are:
1. LFE for things like explosions
2. Music playing in the background (or foreground)
3. Dialogue

No one really minds a few explosions in movies being a bit "boomy" - the problem lies with certain nulls that can happen in the room. This becomes apparent to some people when certain movies seem to have incredibly bass heavy explosions, and others seem to have LFE that just seems really "weak". In general, its probably due to a null at the frequencies - it doesn't matter how powerful your sub is (but placement DOES matter).

Music is a make or break for some in movies, but others don't pay too much attention to the music channels. This would be personal preference (but treatment will certainly make a difference in how music sounds).

The most important area IMO is dialogue. 80-200Hz are important for speech clarity and is typically the largest heard improvement when treating a home theater. Understanding dialogue while things are happening in the background of the movie (or even in your home theater room) is much easier with low frequency treatment.

If I have no personal issues in my home theater experience with the three points you mentioned, are bass traps still worth buying for watching movies?
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
GIK Acoustics's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth3si ➡️
If I have no personal issues in my home theater experience with the three points you mentioned, are bass traps still worth buying for watching movies?
This is an odd question to answer, but I'll say yes and no. It really depends on your ears. A mixing engineer or extreme audiophile might be able to detect the difference one bass trap makes (for the record, I don't). But if you fully treated a room, anyone that has heard the room before will hear a difference. However, whether it is worth your money is a completely different question, and is impossible for someone else to answer. Fully acoustically treating the space though, to be honest, is pretty intensively revealing - you would certainly notice a difference - I'm moreso suggesting that you might not be able to tell the difference if your place were treated with thick treatment to get the bass vs. treating the mids and high end.

Put another way, many people are happy with their on HT sound system they got at Best Buy on sale for $400. Do $3,000 speakers sound better? Well, most likely. Will you hear a difference? Probably. Is the difference worth $3000? I might think so, someone else might not think so. All a matter of perspective, cost, and the like.

Everywhere I go, I hear the room. I'm constantly thinking of the characteristics of a space - whether I'm in a restaurant, at a coffee shop, or a friend's house. My brother, who is an electrician, stares at the lighting and wiring everywhere he goes. I'd bet he has more of an opinion than I on the lights in my kitchen.
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #11
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras ➡️
Start the following video at 3:30. It records music (a movie would be the same) with and without treatment.
https://gikacoustics.com/treated-and...istening-room/
Would you need measurements of frequency response in my room to give out acoustical room advice in terms of what kind of bass traps to use, how much is required, what specific size to get, and where to place them in the room?
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
GIK Acoustics's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth3si ➡️
Would you need measurements of frequency response in my room to give out acoustical room advice in terms of what kind of bass traps to use, how much is required, what specific size to get, and where to place them in the room?
Measurements are always helpful to quantify things. For example, if a room is sounding "boomy" it is probably from a resonance, but whether the resonance is at 40 Hz or 80 Hz might be a difficult question for some. Measurements help take the guesswork out of it.

Also, it keeps you mindful of certain things. If you typically don't "hear" a problem that you see - it might be an indication that the mic wasn't set in the right location, etc. Measurements can also be utilized to show you the best place to sit in a room, among other things.

Sending measurements is the most sure-fire way to get the best and most accurate advice for your room.
Old 31st January 2013 | Show parent
  #13
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics ➡️
Measurements are always helpful to quantify things. For example, if a room is sounding "boomy" it is probably from a resonance, but whether the resonance is at 40 Hz or 80 Hz might be a difficult question for some. Measurements help take the guesswork out of it.
Do experts always need to quantify things to give accurate advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics ➡️
Also, it keeps you mindful of certain things. If you typically don't "hear" a problem that you see - it might be an indication that the mic wasn't set in the right location, etc. Measurements can also be utilized to show you the best place to sit in a room, among other things.
How many frequency measurements would I need to record and submit to get the best and most accurate advice for my room?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics ➡️
Sending measurements is the most sure-fire way to get the best and most accurate advice for your room.
Is an expert able to give accurate advice without my submission of frequency measurements?
Old 31st January 2013 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth3si ➡️
Do experts always need to quantify things to give accurate advice?

How many frequency measurements would I need to record and submit to get the best and most accurate advice for my room?


Is an expert able to give accurate advice without my submission of frequency measurements?
FYI: You're addressing these questions to a bunch of pro-measurement geeks.

I include myself in that group.

("pro" meaning "advocating for" in this instance)
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
GIK Acoustics's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth3si ➡️
Do experts always need to quantify things to give accurate advice?
To give literally accurate advice? Yes. To give useful/helpful advice? No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth3si ➡️
Is an expert able to give accurate advice without my submission of frequency measurements?
To give literally accurate advice? No, we would need tests - that is, if by frequency measurements you mean measurements from a program like REW. Frequency response would not be enough to give you the most accurate advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth3si ➡️
How many frequency measurements would I need to record and submit to get the best and most accurate advice for my room?
Running three tests should suffice for a good picture of whats going on at mixing position. That would be one measurement made with both speakers running, one measurement with the left speaker, and one with the right.
Old 4th February 2013 | Show parent
  #16
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics ➡️
To give literally accurate advice? No, we would need tests - that is, if by frequency measurements you mean measurements from a program like REW. Frequency response would not be enough to give you the most accurate advice.
If frequency measurements and frequency responses aren't enough to give you the most accurate advice, then what tests would you need to give the most accurate advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIK Acoustics ➡️
Running three tests should suffice for a good picture of whats going on at mixing position. That would be one measurement made with both speakers running, one measurement with the left speaker, and one with the right.
I don't have a mixing position. I have a listening position for watching movies with 5 speakers and a subwoofer: FL, C, FR, BL, BR and a subwoofer. I thought I had made this clear in my first post.

Does this mean I don't need to submit tests to get accurate advice?
📝 Reply
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump