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REW Broken?
Old 22nd January 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
REW Broken?

I got a Radio Shack spl meter. Measured my room from 20hz to 300 hz at the mixing position. I used a signal generator plugin from protools. The largest difference between 2 readings on the spl meter was within 10db.

2nd method using REW, still using spl meter mic plugged into a great river pre to apogee 200. Took measurement at same position and is a 40db difference between 100hz and 300hz. It looks like a HP filter is set at 100hz. It is relatively flat from 42 to 100hz.

Should I just ignore REW, and go with my first readings? I know I won't get a waterfall measurement, but I can't seem to get that to work anyway. I always get these errors when using REW, saying too low or readings may not be accurate, but the wave forms look the same.

I just want to get a somewhat accurate measurement of my room., so I know where my problem areas are. I'm considering getting IK's ARC just for the measurement capability.
Old 22nd January 2009
  #2
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
REW NG

Hi Bad, I wouldn't waste any more time with REW. Get a demo or buy FuzzMeasure or ETF. However before that I suggest you read this
Room Analysis Primer
Room treatment works wonders and is simple to do. All you need to know is freely available at RealTraps GIK and elsewhere.
Do a search on corrective Eq. Many of us don't support it, regarding it as a last resort.
Dan FitzGerald AMIOA
Sound Sound - Homepage
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Dan,

I've actually installed many bass traps already and the room sounds pretty good. I just want to get some measurements to see what actually is going on and where I can possibly improve. I'm using a mac, I don't know if those programs you mentioned are compatible but I'll look into them.

Thanks for your help.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Mac

Hi, do read that primer first. Measurements are in the eye of the beholder.
FuzzMeasure is a Mac only program. Current version is Intel and the latest OS. If you have a PPC Mac, Chris will give you an earlier demo. I can recommend it without reservation.
Best, DD
Old 22nd January 2009
  #5
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadJones ➑️
Measured my room from 20hz to 300 hz at the mixing position. I used a signal generator plugin from protools. The largest difference between 2 readings on the spl meter was within 10db.
Did you measure using sine waves at 1 Hz intervals? In that case you should get the same results as REW. If you measured at coarser intervals, then REW is correct and your tones missed a lot of detail.

Quote:
I'm considering getting IK's ARC just for the measurement capability.
REW is far more accurate and offers much more information such as waterfall plots. REW works fine on PCs, but I've heard it is not reliable with Macs. If you have a Mac I agree with Dan to get FuzzMeasure.

--Ethan
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Ethan,

Frequency was at 4hz intervals. If I download the wav files from your site would I be able able to get an accurate measurement just using the spl meter?

Dan,

I'm running 10.4.11, not an intel mac. I will check out fuzz measure for sure, in the meantime I'm going to try and plot a graph manually using the spl meter and the files downloaded from realtraps.

Thanks again
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadJones ➑️
Frequency was at 4hz intervals.
Yeah, that's not fine enough resolution, So use our test CD. Or better, use FuzzMeasure because that shows time-based problems as well as the raw response. You know you're going to get it eventually, so why wait? heh

--Ethan
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
OK, can't get fuzz measure because all I can find to download is version 3.0 for leopard. I can't upgrade from tiger yet.

Ran Ethan's test tone cd. Average readings were 85db. highest peak 92db at 70hz and lowest null 78db at around 295hz. Wish I could test above 300, but anyway thanks for the help. It does appear REW was not working right.

I have several broadband traps up now but it appears I need to hone in on that peak at 70hz. Using an eq is a no no? Just a couple of db? I'm going to do a little research, I'm pretty tired of the DIY already, but any suggestions? Ethan?
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan ➑️
Hi, do read that primer first. Measurements are in the eye of the beholder.
FuzzMeasure is a Mac only program. Current version is Intel and the latest OS. If you have a PPC Mac, Chris will give you an earlier demo. I can recommend it without reservation.
Best, DD
Not quite correct, but close...

FuzzMeasure Pro 3.0 runs on both PPC and Intel Macs running Leopard.

An older version is available (2.0.11) which will run on 10.3.9 and higher. You can download a copy of it it here.

Hope this helps.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by liscio ➑️
Not quite correct, but close...

FuzzMeasure Pro 3.0 runs on both PPC and Intel Macs running Leopard.

An older version is available (2.0.11) which will run on 10.3.9 and higher. You can download a copy of it it here.

Hope this helps.
It's a tbz extension? The file archives and then nothing. I can't find it. Is the file safe? Pro 3 will unzip but says can't find application to open with, which is understandable since I'm running tiger. I hope I didn't compromise my computer.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Don't worry

Hi Bad, that link works fine on my Tiger, it unarchives into an actual application, i.e. FuzzMeasure. It is extremely difficult to compromise OSX. Don't worry. From the general tone of the thread I am becoming more convinced FM etc. would be a waste of your time. I recommend reading the Treatment FAQ's at RealTraps and GIK. FM will not change the prescription at all.
i.e. RTFM :-)

DD
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Dan,

I will be doing some more measuring this weekend, but don't let the sound of this thread underestimate my abilities.

I know about the 1st reflection points and the basstraps in the corners and fsk fronts, and how to build a tuned panel trap, diffusers, etc. I've built 3 really nice wooden diffusers, 8 panel trps and several broadband absorbers thru out the years, as well as purchased several gik panels and a couple of mini traps. These treatments are used thru out my little basement studio, and really sounds good. I just never measured the rooms.

I'm going to upgrade to leapard soon and then just download thr FM Pro 3. That 70hz peak problem is caused by the location of my sub. I know a sub is not recommended, but with a little more help measuring i'll be able to place the sub in a optimum position. Love the sub by the way.

I'm glad to hear the file won't hurt my mac, I'll investigate it further this evening. I will eventually get it to work. Thanks for the info.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadJones ➑️
Using an eq is a no no? Just a couple of db?
EQ to cut peaks (only) below 60 Hz or so is okay, but it's not the same as having more bass traps.

--Ethan
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by liscio ➑️
Not quite correct, but close...

FuzzMeasure Pro 3.0 runs on both PPC and Intel Macs running Leopard.

An older version is available (2.0.11) which will run on 10.3.9 and higher. You can download a copy of it it here.

Hope this helps.
Thanks, I got it to work, it really helped. If I were to purchase 2.0 would I have to pay for 3.0 in the future? I'm planning on going to leapard in a few months.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Here's a graph I did of my room at the mixing position using the demo. Mic not calibrated, can't get a waterfall using the demo.

What do you think? I don't know how to fix that dip between 4k and 5k. That may be just because the mic wasn't calibrated. I'm using the mic from the radio shack spl meter.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadJones ➑️
I don't know how to fix that dip between 4k and 5k.
You may not have to fix anything. Peaks and nulls at higher frequencies are often the result of measuring artifacts, and not representative of what's really happening. Just as often, that's the speaker's inherent response. Do you have absorption at the side-wall and ceiling reflection points?

--Ethan
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks Ethan,

Yes I have the first reflection points and ceiling covered. I can here the high end just fine, I think if it was anymore pronounced it would be too much.

I think it's time to start mixing and see how things translate,
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Did a few changes, moving traps around and opening a door to my live room, just a small room off my control room really.

Anyway, I am thrilled. Here's a new graph. I couldn't of done it without the fuzzmeasure demo, and of course all the fine folks on this forum!
πŸ“ Reply

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