The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
PA BLOW(amp parts melt inside) 3000€ bill from rent
Old 30th May 2016
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
PA BLOW(amp parts melt inside) 3000€ bill from rent

Hi! im seeking help after a rented PA broke totally at a party.

i was invited to play, and during my set, left speaker "popped". EV EKX-12P - Thomann UK

This was the speaker. they also had two subs and a monitor. The one who rent the system also setup the system. He had two mixers in chain, one was supposed to be a "limiter". The space where i played was about 20m2.

so i played with my friends monotribe during my set and during that the speaker popped. my friend and one organizer tried another fuse but it also failed. they replaced the speaker with another one after my set and everything was fine. i left from the party. Then after couple of days the organizer asked me what will we do with the bill from rentshop, the bill was 3000€!! so after i left, the whole system started to fail! all the speakers broke one by one! someone said that one of the subs "blew fire".

we allways watch so the levels dont go red in the mixer! there werent any distortion or anything! imo in that space theres noway we can melt an 1500w amp! i always put lvls from mixer to 0db, everything from computer to 0db, and then use gain to adjust the output so it does not go red! so far ive done this in middle of a raining forest with no problems and with smaller PA!

can anyone explain why this happend? there werent a decent limiter nor dsp, could it be the cause? or is it really possible that i blew up a 1,5kw speaker by playing music too loud? we always play with decent volume so its not too loud for dancers, and in 20m2 space without any warning how can it be my fault?
Old 30th May 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Gee, how loud did the band play? Was there a professional live sound engineer at the controls? Was there intentional or incidental misuse of the gear? Did the gig get ruined by the failure of the gear? The organizer should eat the cost, or take the sound company to court for spoiling your gig :-)

With my small sound company, I do not rent gear unless they also hire me to run it, for precisely the reasons of your experience. Like, would you rent a limo to drive yourself? Not MINE!
Old 30th May 2016
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Lumbergh's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU ➡️
Then after couple of days the organizer asked me what will we do with the bill from rentshop, the bill was 3000€!!
We? Did you sign the rental agreement?

Assuming it was used correctly I'd be furious with the rental company for supplying defective gear!
Old 30th May 2016
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
we (i and one friend) play techno music from laptop, to be specific psytrance . i did not sign anything, and i have talked with an organizer who at the time wants me to take part for at least on that one speakers bill. its not that i really have to pay anything if i dont want to, i just want to figure out what was the reason and could it really be cos of volume? i want to get a good explanation for the organizer, so he can possibly take the case to customer service. because now he really think the whole system broke cos of "gains too loud". in fact, i lowered gain when we started to play, cos gains were up and fader from mixer down, i put fader 0db and adjust levels with gain(i never let it go red on purpose!)
Old 30th May 2016
  #5
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
"voice coil"(translate from finnish ) broken on other speaker, "amp parts melted" inside other speaker and it did not turn on, one sub blew flames when connected to amp(so apparently subs were passive?, dont remember clear, but imo the the speakers got sound cable from subs)

this is what organizer told they figured out in the "morning".

there werent proffesional engineer at the place, but its not that we are not familiar with pa systems. we have used several systems, and at the moment have a 3kw system, with 2 jbl eons as monitors. just this time it was not "Our system" , it was a system that these organizers have rented several times, even i played month ago witht he same system, and louder imo! with np.

again, the one who rented(supposed to be an pro from the shop) the system also setup the system.
Old 30th May 2016 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Lumbergh's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU ➡️
i did not sign anything ... an organizer ... wants me to take part for at least on that one speakers bill.

... the one who rented the system also setup the system.
In that case tell em to shove it!
Old 30th May 2016
  #7
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Sounds as though you have no responsibility in the blowup.

Once my EV 15" ZLX-15Ps (earlier model than the EKX) were set up outdoors in 98 degree heat with the sun on the back of one of them. Near the end of soundcheck, the one in the sun shut down with the messiage "HOT". Later I got it to come back after the sun had set. These types of speakers have well-matched amps internally, so they should never blow, just shut down if over-driven.

The sub blowing flames says that somehow the system was not set up properly. Whoever set it up should take responsiobility for the mishap.

Best luck! If I were you, I would only pay if you value the relationship with the organozer more than the truth! :-)
Old 30th May 2016 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson ➡️
Best luck! If I were you, I would only pay if you value the relationship with the organozer more than the truth! :-)
thank you! and spot on! i just cant pay before really knowing the truth! i want to get the organizer to realize it before paying him. i already paid 40€ to "sharity collection" for new pa + didnt take anything from gig where i spent 50€ worth gasoline to drive! but still im asked for a cut for new speaker, i ts optional and not demand, but still....
Old 31st May 2016
  #9
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
so its now solved from my part. I contacted the one who rent the system, and all he had to say was that the system worked when setup and all broken when he got them back. thats all he wants to know. So as he cant give me any explanation, why the fault is the artist's, i wont raise a finger for it either. I explained all that you guys said and he had nothing to say about it. He said his equipment is at EV importer, and that it was bought in february! He has rent the system for 5 parties and it broke! i doubt that he will tell the whole story(2mixers) for warranty . Also he said that "gains" from the speakers(he means all knobs) were on max, but then the sound would distort, am i right? and none of artists touch them! also that passive sub was only as a "stand" .

so i wont pay anything more since i have made very clear why the fault happend, and thats the end of it. i do feel bad for the organizer, but he also has all this information and its up to him, what he does with it.
thanks for giving me help!

just one question, is true that the other mixer could compress the signal, and not limit. or limit, but same time compress since its too low in the next one. so the signal would be a compressed signal that makes more load on the speakers. in two partys the sound allways sounded like porrige(in finnish ), but by adjusting the mixer right(previous artist allways has gain max!) i get a decent clear sound. never realized that the cabs were that good! since the system played way worse than many cheap systems ive had!

this is what i heard from one source.
Old 31st May 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
THIS is all about perfect example of why people should hire professional sound engineers. It costs less to ave a specialist come in with equiment they know and do the job right, rther than renting something dubious and busting it.

Whether the organizer, promoter, or band, someone should have take responsibility and done the job correctly.

2 mixers in sequence shows that whoever did the setup is an ignoramus and might be responsible for the debacle. And perhaps the knobs got turned up all the way while idiots were painicing and trying to get it working.

Ypu might try to find a decent reliable sound man, and isist they hire him and his gear!
Old 1st June 2016
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
The mucking around with fuses raises my suspicion; it's very common for people to put in the wrong type of fuse or even short the fused connection out of a combination of ignorance, impatience, and idiocy. The fact that things started catching fire not long after the fuse was "replaced" is very suspicious.

Either way, you didn't rent, run, or try to fix the system so there's no way you should have to pay for it.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 627 views: 110909
Avatar for damoog
damoog 27th April 2019
replies: 5 views: 7208
Avatar for Mr. Green
Mr. Green 16th January 2012
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump