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Logic faders sound bad?
Old 12th March 2014
  #1
Logic faders sound bad?

Forgive me if I come across as smoking something potent, but I've accidentally discovered that increasing the volume of a track by sending it to a completely dry aux track sounds a good deal cleaner than turning up the fader in logic.

Any reason for this?

Ciao!
Old 12th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Yea remove the plugins then try that trick again. The plugin can make noise, they will call it some kind in vintage crap, but its just noise...
Old 13th March 2014
  #3
There was no plugin on the aux track. Also, The signal getting sent to the aux track is the same as that on the audio track, so if your theory is correct, I'd be turning that nonsense up with the aux as well. Hmmmmm
Old 13th March 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Is your send configured as post pan, or post fader?

This could account for a difference in sound if the send is not set to post pan (and the pan is off centre).
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robangledorf ➑️
There was no plugin on the aux track. Also, The signal getting sent to the aux track is the same as that on the audio track, so if your theory is correct, I'd be turning that nonsense up with the aux as well. Hmmmmm
The problem is..., we could all turn our faders up too! We get nothing, if nothing's on the track..., we get nothing...

I have Logic... I get nothing...
Old 13th March 2014
  #6
There is audio on the track. What made you think there was nothing on the track?
Old 13th March 2014 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robangledorf ➑️
There is audio on the track. What made you think there was nothing on the track?
Because you said it was Logic's fader...

I'm just trying to narrow down things that could add noise

So if you move a fader with nothing on it, there will be no noise right? Can you tell me the set up for the track? And is it every track with something on it that make noise?
Old 14th March 2014
  #8
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🎧 10 years
Who said anything about noise
Old 14th March 2014
  #9
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robangledorf ➑️
… discovered that increasing the volume of a track by sending it to a completely dry aux track sounds a good deal cleaner than turning up the fader in logic.

^^ I think that's what classictunz is referring to.
Old 14th March 2014
  #10
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🎧 10 years
Sure, I just didn't interpret that as about noise. Could be wrong though!
Old 14th March 2014 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo ➑️
Who said anything about noise
Clean is clean, any dirt is considered noise. We use noise creatively like when we use distortion.

So feel free to use whatever word you like to describe the less clean sound you're referring too...

You say bad, I say noise.
Old 14th March 2014
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
luizdepalma's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
repeat after me:
You say bad, I say noise.
You say bad, I say noise.
You say bad, I say noise....
Old 14th March 2014
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I think the OP is just talking about there not being an identical (bit for bit) transfer between the two different routes (channel fader vs send/aux).
Old 14th March 2014 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by luizdepalma ➑️
repeat after me:
You say bad, I say noise.
You say bad, I say noise.
You say bad, I say noise....
Old 14th March 2014 | Show parent
  #15
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand ➑️
I think the OP is just talking about there not being an identical (bit for bit) transfer between the two different routes (channel fader vs send/aux).
Exactly.

Cheers
Old 14th March 2014 | Show parent
  #16
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand ➑️
I think the OP is just talking about there not being an identical (bit for bit) transfer between the two different routes (channel fader vs send/aux).
Logic fader sound bad is misleading...

Maybe 'does Logic fader sound different when you turn up the aux sends.

Not bad...
Not bad...
Not bad...
Old 14th March 2014
  #17
Tui
Gear Guru
 
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
What are you guys talking about. That Logic's channel strip "sounds different" from the Aux buses? Of course it doesn't.
Old 14th March 2014
  #18
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🎧 5 years
We're not saying it does. The OP is indicating there's a difference (edit).

I suspect it may have to do with whether his send is set up up pre/post pan.
Old 14th March 2014 | Show parent
  #19
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand ➑️
We're not saying it does. The OP is indicating there's a difference (edit).

I suspect it may have to do with whether his send is set up up pre/post pan.
Whats the difference that's so...BAD? That's one hell of a term for something that should only zerso if no audio is there.

I think the op need to explain the scenario a little better...
Old 14th March 2014
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robangledorf ➑️
Forgive me if I come across as smoking something potent, but I've accidentally discovered that increasing the volume of a track by sending it to a completely dry aux track sounds a good deal cleaner than turning up the fader in logic.

Any reason for this?

Ciao!
So you create an aux send from a track with no plugins? If you aren't making that aux pre-fader and are not muting the original track you will increase the amplitude because you now have two tracks playing the same material.
Old 14th March 2014 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Nut
 
seeren's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
There is no difference aside from that you cannot adjust the gain (with a gain plug or with a channel fader) with enough precision to get the exact same amplitude change as is arrived at by combining two signals.
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand ➑️
I think the OP is just talking about there not being an identical (bit for bit) transfer between the two different routes (channel fader vs send/aux).
^this is exactly what I think I'm hearing.

I could just be going crazy, but by pushing my fader to +3 (signal still not even close to clipping on the meters) the signal sounded ever so slightly distorted, while I could turn up to even higher levels without distortion if I just sent more signal to a dry aux send. Puzzling.....
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand ➑️
I suspect it may have to do with whether his send is set up up pre/post pan.
Panned to center
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #24
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robangledorf ➑️
Panned to center
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #25
Tui
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robangledorf ➑️
this is exactly what I think I'm hearing.
If you do a null test, then you know what you are hearing. If there is a difference, you can both see and hear it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robangledorf ➑️
by pushing my fader to +3 (signal still not even close to clipping on the meters) the signal sounded ever so slightly distorted, while I could turn up to even higher levels without distortion if I just sent more signal to a dry aux send. Puzzling.....
The signal might be clipping internally somewhere, even though the meter doesn't show it. This can happen easily when plug-ins are involved, for example.

Logic's own Gain plug-in does funny things, too. When I did some phase-cancellation tests a while ago, I was surprised to find that I couldn't get two identical files to null below -90dB or so, when I used the Gain plug-in on any of the channels. It turned out, Gain produces a noise floor, but - get this - only when Logic is stopped. Once Logic is in running mode, the noise disappears. That was with Logic 9, mind you.
Old 15th March 2014
  #26
Gear Nut
 
fisherking's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
i heard some scratchy noises from the logic channel faders, so i sprayed some 3-in-1 oil in the fader slots, and the noise is gone...
Old 16th March 2014 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisherking ➑️
i heard some scratchy noises from the logic channel faders, so i sprayed some 3-in-1 oil in the fader slots, and the noise is gone...
I tried that as well, but when it came back it was much worse! Rendering aux sends totally useless! Anytime I crack a .5 db a fat Lady would start singing...
Old 16th March 2014
  #28
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🎧 15 years
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui ➑️

The signal might be clipping internally somewhere, even though the meter doesn't show it. This can happen easily when plug-ins are involved, for example.

Logic's own Gain plug-in does funny things, too. When I did some phase-cancellation tests a while ago, I was surprised to find that I couldn't get two identical files to null below -90dB or so, when I used the Gain plug-in on any of the channels. It turned out, Gain produces a noise floor, but - get this - only when Logic is stopped. Once Logic is in running mode, the noise disappears. That was with Logic 9, mind you.
This was quite helpful! The Gain plug-in was involved. Thanks for giving me a real response that wasn't condesending / snarky
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robangledorf ➑️
This was quite helpful! The Gain plug-in was involved. Thanks for giving me a real response that wasn't condesending / snarky
The gain plugin is a wee feller much better replaced in all duties by the marvellous Sonalksis FreeG.
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