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Nagra VI Keyboard
Old 6th January 2015
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Nagra VI Keyboard

Ok, Nagrists... What's the secret to getting a keyboard to work with the VI? I've tried a couple of different ones (all Mac keyboards), and none of them work at all. I don't see any option to enable/disable the keyboard either in the menus or discussed on the user guide.

So, what...is there a secret handshake or something?

Thanks - Jim
Old 6th January 2015
  #2
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
If the Mac keyboard has a USB slot in it (as most do), the Nagra might see it as a USB Hub and NOT as a keyboard
Old 6th January 2015 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHenry ➑️
If the Mac keyboard has a USB slot in it (as most do), the Nagra might see it as a USB Hub and NOT as a keyboard
Jack is spot on, this is the reason. You need a stock standard USB keyboard without any downstream USB ports. I got one of the magnificent Cherry ML4100 USB. Has mechanical key switches and it fits in the front pouch of the NVI bag. Put any Mac stuff a long way from the Nagra.
Old 6th January 2015
  #4
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🎧 10 years
David

I believe Nick Harrison in Melbourne uses a wireless keyboard with a wireless dongle on his VI
Old 6th January 2015
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I had the correct mini keyboard packed in my peli with the VI
The usb end got crushed by the peli lid and rendered it useless even with all my first aid skills
Ive gone back to onboard navigation, its fine and will not break
Old 7th January 2015
  #6
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thumbs up

I use a rubber roll-up keyboard with my Nagra VI
Old 7th January 2015
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks for the informative replies, guys. I'll get my hands on a keyboard without an integrated USB hub and see how it goes. BTW, none of these keyboards work with the Seven either. Of course, you don't really need one with the Seven because the touch screen makes text entry very easy.
Old 7th January 2015
  #8
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
It'll be the same issue with the Seven as with the VI
Old 8th January 2015
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Had some similar issues with Sound Devices 664 They wired keybds that work are the cheapo ones made for PCs with no USB passthru. I also still use one of those squishy rollup keyboards after about 10 yrs because it seems to work with everything, even SD 744!

philp
Old 8th January 2015 | Show parent
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➑️
I use a rubber roll-up keyboard with my Nagra VI
Any particular one John??
Old 8th January 2015 | Show parent
  #11
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHenry ➑️
Any particular one John??
No - I just looked in Amazon and got one that looked OK and the price was what I wanted.

It was pretty cheap.

It's only used for titling the tracks and the odd thing, so I didn't need anything special - and a rubber one was easier to roll up and stuff in the flight case.
Old 8th January 2015
  #12
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Still got a crappy USB plug
Is ther a Neutrik version ?
Old 9th January 2015 | Show parent
  #13
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 ➑️
Still got a crappy USB plug
Is ther a Neutrik version ?
Old 9th January 2015 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolo 46 ➑️
Still got a crappy USB plug
Is ther a Neutrik version ?
USB - Neutrik
Old 9th January 2015 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Pretty cool. Nagra should offer a mod for that. But not before they offer a better battery pack module for the Seven with a 3-pin Lemo rather than that consumer-grade charge plug that falls out all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➑️
Old 10th January 2015 | Show parent
  #16
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwanajim ➑️
Pretty cool. Nagra should offer a mod for that. But not before they offer a better battery pack module for the Seven with a 3-pin Lemo rather than that consumer-grade charge plug that falls out all the time.
I have the VI (Anniversary) & Seven and it's a shame the Seven doesn't use the same charge plug.

One thing that really irks me about the Seven is the XLR sockets being upside down. And considering Nagra have long held ergonomics high on their list of design criteria, the headphone gain control is both, in an odd spot next to the headphone jack and almost to small and fiddly to use. I intend to replace mine with an after market one.

The good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
Old 10th January 2015 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Like you, I find the headphone gain control a little awkward when you have headphones plugged in. But it's not too bad. A simple improvement would be to change the control to a simple round one machined from aluminum with a bit of grip to it.

I must say that I like the touch screen and the firmware. I hope to see AES42 mode 2 support before too long, and would love to see it given 4 channel capability (2 analog, 2 AES42). The touch screen makes a lot of things possible...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHenry ➑️
I have the VI (Anniversary) & Seven and it's a shame the Seven doesn't use the same charge plug.

One thing that really irks me about the Seven is the XLR sockets being upside down. And considering Nagra have long held ergonomics high on their list of design criteria, the headphone gain control is both, in an odd spot next to the headphone jack and almost to small and fiddly to use. I intend to replace mine with an after market one.

The good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
Old 10th January 2015
  #18
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🎧 10 years
What will Mode 2 bring to the table?
Old 10th January 2015 | Show parent
  #19
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Mode 2 allows digital mics to be clocked from the receiving equipment, eliminating the need for an external device such as a Neumann DMI to sync two mics in a stereo pair. It also allows control of various mic preamp parameters, such as polar pattern, low cut filters, pre-attenuation, peak limiting and more.

According to Nagra, the Seven has the hardware needed to fully support mode 2. With the current firmware, you can already use an AES42 pair that use a common stereo digital module, such as the Sennheiser MZD8000, though you would not have control of any of the MZD8000's parameters. The touch screen makes it possible to add a panel that would allow full control of all the parameters. This can all be implemented though firmware.

The Seven has only 2 mic pres and A/D converters. But because digital mics have integrated preamps and converters, all the Seven would have to do is play bit bucket for the additional digital channels. What's exciting is that it should be possible to make the Seven record 4 channels with 2 analog and 2 digital mics. As I suggested to John Owens, the display could easily accommodate 4 level bars, and the touch screen could make it easy to toggle gain control between channels. From a UI perspective, this is all doable. The Seven has the hardware infrastructure.

The micro SD internal storage could end up being the bottleneck for high sampling rates, since the fastest microSD cards are still at around 95mb/sec. So it may well be that recording 4 channels a 24/192 would have to be done to an external drive or a 300mb/sec SDHC/SDXC card in the external slot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHenry ➑️
What will Mode 2 bring to the table?

Last edited by bwanajim; 10th January 2015 at 08:44 AM..
Old 10th January 2015
  #20
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🎧 10 years
I'd like to see some sort of Lissajous meter on the Seven screen.

And the option of putting the levels back at the bottom of the screen

Last edited by JackHenry; 10th January 2015 at 01:11 PM..
Old 11th January 2015 | Show parent
  #21
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHenry ➑️
I'd like to see some sort of Lissajous meter on the Seven screen.

And the option of putting the levels back at the bottom of the screen
This is a great idea! Perhaps if we both ask John Owens, they may consider adding it to the software. The displays on both the VI and the VII might be able to handle it, and in config (on the Nagra 6) all you would have to do is to select which pair of channels you wanted plotted as the Lissajous.

It might not be too difficult. They added A and B-Format decoding to MS to the Nagra 6 without too much fuss.
Old 11th January 2015
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
We always hoped the VI screen could underlay camera picture for drama shoots.
Old 11th January 2015 | Show parent
  #23
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➑️
This is a great idea! Perhaps if we both ask John Owens, they may consider adding it to the software. The displays on both the VI and the VII might be able to handle it, and in config (on the Nagra 6) all you would have to do is to select which pair of channels you wanted plotted as the Lissajous.

It might not be too difficult. They added A and B-Format decoding to MS to the Nagra 6 without too much fuss.
David

Email Greg Simmons about it as I know he is also keen on that idea. Perhaps a concerted frontal attack on Nagra would be a good approach.

John
Old 11th January 2015
  #24
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
I got pointed to using the $20 wireless Rii i8+ mini keyboard from a Zaxcom user. I'd been using the rollup keyboard with my Nagra VI for a few years but I'm finding this a much better solution. amazon link

Old 11th January 2015 | Show parent
  #25
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🎧 10 years
I just ordered one of these.

Hey Nik did you read the post about the Lissajous meter on the screen?

Last edited by JackHenry; 11th January 2015 at 05:52 AM..
Old 11th January 2015
  #26
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Sure did and I'd love a Lissajous meter on the Nagra VI!!
Old 11th January 2015 | Show parent
  #27
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHenry ➑️
What will Mode 2 bring to the table?
Mode-2 AES42 mics are clocked from the receiving equipment so you don't need to go through a sample-rate converter to clock them.

Also they are properly in-phase with each other.

See my AES papers on the subject:-

Digital Microphones - what's it all about

Digital Microphones - AES42 and all that
Old 11th January 2015 | Show parent
  #28
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🎧 10 years
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwanajim ➑️
Mode 2 allows digital mics to be clocked from the receiving equipment, eliminating the need for an external device such as a Neumann DMI to sync two mics in a stereo pair. It also allows control of various mic preamp parameters, such as polar pattern, low cut filters, pre-attenuation, peak limiting and more.
Yes and no.

This reply is a bit misleading as the Neumann DMI will *not* sync. mode-1 microphones.

You can only use mode-1 microphones with a Neumann DMI if you put the output through a sample-rate converter - the DMI does not have an SRC itself.

It was designed to be used with the Neumann and Sennheiser digital mics. which are all mode-2.

But the rest is correct.
Old 12th January 2015 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Yes, that was not clear. In any case, I am only talking about mode 2 mics. Am I correct in assuming that a recoding device that fully implemented mode 2 would be able to accept inputs directly from multiple mode 2 digital microphones and that device would be able to clock all of them without the need for something like a Neumann DMI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➑️
Yes and no.

This reply is a bit misleading as the Neumann DMI will *not* sync. mode-1 microphones.

You can only use mode-1 microphones with a Neumann DMI if you put the output through a sample-rate converter - the DMI does not have an SRC itself.

It was designed to be used with the Neumann and Sennheiser digital mics. which are all mode-2.

But the rest is correct.
Old 12th January 2015 | Show parent
  #30
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwanajim ➑️
Yes, that was not clear. In any case, I am only talking about mode 2 mics. Am I correct in assuming that a recoding device that fully implemented mode 2 would be able to accept inputs directly from multiple mode 2 digital microphones and that device would be able to clock all of them without the need for something like a Neumann DMI?
Yes, if a device says it's mode-2 AES42 compatible I would say that it would have to be able to clock the mics properly without going through a SRC.

It may not be able to do all the other things (maybe only some of them), but to say "mode-2" it would have, at the very least, to be able to clock them correctly without using an external device.
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