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7.1 Recording
Old 24th January 2013 | Show parent
  #31
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by just.sounds ➡️
Hi Brendan,

Say Hi to Wessel from me ;-) And for 7.1 maybe you can think about an adaptation of the omnisurround recording strategy. (leo de Klerk & Eelco Grimm) Wessel can tell you more about that. What the main strategy is with 5.1 and 7.1 imho is to separate direct sound from the diffuse sound of the room. The direct sound (stereo mix or discrete source) you put on a pair of speakers And the diffuse sound you put on the rest of the speakers and on that pair.

Idealy you have spaced microphones for the back (or diffuse channels) and you can use stereo technique for the front or "direct speakers" My ideal spacing for diffuse was +- 40cm (maybe with extra on 3m for the low end sort of outriggers)

Double imaging is your enemy and the last thing you want is a flute that jumps in the back speaker ;-)

Indeed Look at the work of g. theile (OCT) and see how he avoids double imaging. I choose stereo with omni's with no centre because with 3 mic's you almost have to use cardiods or hypers.

Best of luck
Boy Griffioen
Hi Boy, Eelco has told me about you once!

I don't see Wessel a lot this year, in fact, I think I will never again, at school that is. Eelco Grimm is now my project mentor.

I've had a lot of lessons in omnisurround and use these techniques a lot as well, but I'm now moving toward my sort of own version of OCT Surround (using omni's just a few millimeters under the supercardioids for better low end response, then low pass filtering those, and high pass filtering the supercardioids). This has worked quite well but OCT Surround is giving me a hard time converting to 7.1. Will research this as well.

Today I had a great conversation with Bert van der Wolf at North Star Recordings. His recordings are just plain simply UNBELIEVABLE. It was almost brainmelting, seeing his studio before you, but hearing a totally different room! I've never heard this kind of realism before, it was an incredible soundstage to say the least! And, it was 5.1! The main reason for my choice of 7.1 was, having that extra speaker there just helped out the believability of the virtual room a LOT, at least in my own listening tests.
Old 25th January 2013 | Show parent
  #32
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just.sounds's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ah your at hku, figures ;-) Then ask Eelco about his new chairs ;-P

What is Bert his strategy?

And i would make that hypercardioids a fig8
Why? Because with a omni and 8 you are in pattern wonderland.

75%8 and 25%omni makes a hypercardioid.
And to get nice width in the low end with omni's you probably want a bit more than the width of OCT and you can mix and EQ (directionality) that in.

EQ one of the omni and 8 channels to change the pattern and correct it (half the db's) in the sum. You might want to try linear phase eq's

To make a version of OCT for 7.1
I would start of with the front of OCT and put a hamasaki square behind it. And mix the hamasaki to the side and rear surrounds.

You could also use the suggested back channels of OCT with just a pair of 8's in between. BUT direct sound from the sides will be jumpy. But i'm affraid with hypercardioids you have jumpy problems from side to front.

Maybe you can try +- 15cm from front to hamasaki and the hamasaki with 40cm spacing. This will help you with the "hole" you have between the sides and the fronts (speakers). Because the comb filtering will fool your mind ;-)

And some sort of insulation (i'm visualising a pluche ball) between the Side 8's
Old 28th January 2013
  #33
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Roland's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendonheinst ➡️
Hi guys,

I've been a loooong time reader of Gearslutz but this is my first post, so I hope I'm at the right part of GS!

I am currently in my last year of a Masters Degree in Audio Engineering, and for my graduation project I decided to research recording techniques in 7.1 surround sound, mainly for classical (orchestral) music.

I have quite some experience in stereo and 5.1 recording, but never seen anything on 7.1 recording.

So here for my questions;

1. I do not own a lot of gear, at the moment a pair of U87s, Coles 4038 and four DPA 4090s, but I'm looking into a 'main pair' choice for 7.1 recording. What I'm looking for is a flat, non-flattering pencil mic set, preferably on a budget (since I'm getting seven of them...). Can anyone recommend me a nice set for this?

2. Even more important, over the course of my Bachelor's and Masters Degree, I've read A LOT on recording techniques for acoustical music, but never anything about 7-channel surround, so I'll be trying a lot of different stuff and optimise all the parameters to come up with a good technique. But before I do that, I'm hoping there are already some people working with 7.1 recording, or could give me some hints in the right direction. I would LOVE to exchange ideas via email or Skype or something.

So, I'm sorry for the long post, but would really appreciate some views on this subject.

Thanks!

Brendon
There appear to be some interesting opinions and posts here.

From my perspective I've never seen or heard a 7.1 set-up, at least not in a comercial recording situation.

John Willett mentions a muatual friend of ours that has done some interesting tests with periphony, but that is not what I have ever heard described as 7.1.

The only discussions of 7.1 I've ever encountered were to do with film mixing and the concept is more about gaining audience coverage in a large cinema theatre rather than providing the most accurate sound for a selective listening position. In films they often will record either a music soundtrack in stereo or surround and leave it to the post boys to derrive additional channels as required for their final mix.

Whlist it is entirely conceivable that with a little forthought you could produce a 7.1 "orchestral" mix, I would suggest that it would be of little practical benefit and potentially less "convincing" from an imaging point of view.

Periphony is by concept, far more interesting, however, the placement of speakers can be both impractical from both a physical point of view and the fact that there are 2 or more potential layouts that have been tried with none of them achieving a recognised standard. The other issue is that the "sweet spot" becomes very small with in practice only one really good seat.

Obviously this is all a very subjective area and others may vehmeintly disagree with my opinion, so I add the caveat that YMMV.
Old 6th February 2013
  #34
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🎧 5 years
Well, I promised I would let you guys know if anything happens! You can visit my blog at brendonheinst.com/blog . I have talked with some of the big guys to ask them about their view on 7.1 recording.
I am now in search of projects to record and experiment with, but I have already contacted all main conservatories in the Netherlands, as well as some amateur choirs and orchestras. Now we wait.
In the meanwhile, if you're interested in what the big guys had to say, you can check out the blog. More to follow very soon.
Brendon
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