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Roland R-88
Old 17th September 2013 | Show parent
  #91
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🎧 5 years
After much testing on shoot + EDIT on FCP (24p timeline, 24bit 48Khz)

From video point of view Audio is -3frames lagging
From audio point of view Video is +3frames ahead

So to match I would just match the In TC of both A & V & then do -3 or +3 Maths. I could see what was seeming as 1second delay on TC on Camera actually came close to 3Frames. Any users experience from this point of view ?
Old 26th September 2013 | Show parent
  #92
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🎧 5 years
TC sync issue?

What are your video settings? My guess is your audio sampling rate may not be right for your video fps. 24fps? 23.98 fps? etc. Also what software are you using? Your software may be causing this as well.
Old 1st October 2013 | Show parent
  #93
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfoxx ➡️
What are your video settings? My guess is your audio sampling rate may not be right for your video fps. 24fps? 23.98 fps? etc. Also what software are you using? Your software may be causing this as well.
- FCP7
- Timeline true 24fps video & Audio at 24bit 48khz
Old 11th December 2013
  #94
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Roland R88 Review (Part1)

ROLAND R-88 Recorder Mixer

Hi everyone, my name is Christian and here are some of my overall opinions and tests, get some coffee or a few beers it goes for long.
My first impression was at NAB, I took my own SD card, barrowed a mic from Schoeps and did a few channel short recordings, played with the unit for about an hour and left.
I thought it looked ok, listened to the files, and they were quiet, but needed more input for my hungry mind and ears.
Well after many, many frustrating months of trying to find a decent review (that wasn’t a sales pitch) on the ROLAND R-88, I was very surprised that all of us being professionals of the sound business, we request all these technical tests and yet when you do buy the piece of equipment you post 3 lines of caca, sound good to me, very quiet when I tried it, the producer liked it, as I said caca.
That does not help, is like saying I bought a New BMW, it rides nice, and the windows go up and down every time. (can you do doughnuts without losing control, can you disengage the DCS, does navigation give you the wrong directions, ETC.)

Just a little on me: I have been around for a long time, I have done every possible kind of audio, music recording mix you can imagine, I started as a disco DJ when I was 12 years old and build my own gear, I tracked/mixed and worked with NEVE and Focusrite consoles, recorded on NAGRA from pilot sync resolver, to SMPTE time code, mixed on a Shure FP32 field mixer in the Salvadorian jungles, and we got shot at, in Desert Storm recording with a little PD150 DVCAM for CBS, and it all sounded great.
I have a very strong technical background, and have designed and build many pieces of equipment and facilities.
SO not being the most buss word or brand chaser Audio/Broadcast engineer in the world, I decided to buy my own unit, separate 2 weeks of time from my schedule and test the hell out of the unit, with everything I can imagine I would need in the field, cart, studio, or a crazy band that wants an 8 track record with mix of their crappy garage music in a Pasadena bar.

So let’s go to the ROLAND R-88 REVIEW.

First I checked the Roland Sound Systems site and the unit, found that I needed the firmware update so I did, from 1.10 to 1.11.
First off I enabled every channel, boosted the +8 in the input software the cranked the gain all the way to the max on the front pots, and added the +6 DB on the second gain page so to be clear this was VERY VERY loud. With nothing in the inputs I plugged my head set and can hear some slight rain, and hiss, amplification noise, well I thought - that’s no good, there is noise-, well after a plugged in the mics ( Sennheiser MHK416, MK67,MK8070) I realized that it would probably be impossible for me to ever need this much gain it was so amplified and loud that the dog across the street barked, and me from inside the house made the channels peak immediately and the level never went down, tremendously hi. So a took all the gains out (+8,+6,+8) and brought everything to what would be normal use, and calibrated with tone. Very, very clean, lots of head room the Senn 67 and 66 needed a little more than the other but good, workable.
Then I plugged 8 different mikes from good to bad including some old hard SM57, measured Phantom power with and without load, it didn’t flinch, right on the nose (a lot of mixers are not efficient or provide good voltage, that also kills your levels and your sound quality, because phantom is not good enough, (just saying).
Then I plugged in 8 Wireless, 6 Lectrosonics (2 SRB, 1 CR187 at 182.500, and 1 CR 195 at 216.100), and 2 Sennheiser G3, G2. Sounded very good, normal I would say, good manageable levels, and nice ample breathy mic sound on all, including the Senn (toys) with MKE2 and some other crappy eBay mic made in china $18.00, 2 month shipping included). Passed

RF Spill: Did not find any, tried everything, with the transmitters and receivers mentioned, and nothing, put all my SMQV in 250 (HI) and danced around the mixer and nothing, I also put everything in the bag and wired and nothing, except from the CR 187 which is an old unit VHF, it could of picked up some RF on the cable, but only that one and barely.

Timecode: Timecode is been an issue in the industry since everybody went nuts and decided that 78 different types of timecode make a better movie or show, well it doesn’t, and everything can be matched and framed whatever way you want later or in-between. You buy an expensive TCXO super god control timecode unit (with an atomic depleted uranium fusion core in it), but they use a red camera or a Canon (highly inaccurate) and then Pluraleyes, or some other crap afterward anyway), so why worry? Because I do, and I want it to fall on somebody else, be able to sit down and show them that my files are right on time, and sync with the Big Ben in London, and the gong of the monks in the Himalayas every sunset, every time.
So I setup the TC clock in RTC in the R-88, the jammed 1- Panasonic Broadcast Camera, a JVC Broadcast, a Leitch Studio master control clock, a Denecke Time code Display, and a Denecke TS3 Slate. I let it run for exactly 4 hours. I did not see a drift at all, then went for 8 hours more, total 12. The R88 was 2 frames short, but the slate was 7, the Leitch was 1 ahead and the display, was 5, The bench was cold overnight and the variation of temperature over all was between 20 and 30 degrees, so to me it’s very acceptable (by the way, I don’t go more than 2 or 3 hours without re-clocking all equipment on set, Jam slate and camera, etc., so I don’t see a problem). Then I turned the R88 off and left it off for 4 days, no batteries (AA), no backup, nothing, also a temperature swing from about 65 degrees in the day, to 25 degrees at night, on a shelf, out of the bag, in the garage. Plugged in the IDX to the 4 pin and low and behold, the clock was on time minus 2 seconds, to me very accurate, better than the slate does sitting next to the craft table with Lithium Ultimate batteries. Also locked all the pieces of equipment to a Horita generator, and they all kept up to the frame for about 8 hours test.

Limiters: The individual one on every channel responded very good and smooth, I was really surprised, because the reacted and sounded almost exactly, to all the others, Sound Devices (bla bla software magic) or Zaxcom (bla bla limiter world) and any other crap advertising scheme they sell us, over all I don’t use limiters, because it always sounded unnatural, (Eg. Shure mixers), but I was pleasantly surprised, I gained up the boom to very high and screamed at it and the peak light came on once, then I listened to the recording, and no pumping or shelving of the audio, you do notice its going down and trying to level it, but it’s very subtle, definitely will use it in yelling or loud explosion situations without a doubt. Using it on normal speech did not notice anything. All the same with the master output limiter, just like SD, ZX, AE, or any other.

Frequency response: I fed a generator to the input at mic and line level, and swept through with noticeable level deflection on the display itself and the direct outputs on a scope from 16HZ to 24KHZ, which its pretty good, since most people can’t hear bubcus over 20K and most wireless don’t do very well over 16K, but if you will do music, or instruments, it becomes somewhat important, especially at higher sample rates.

Bit rates and Samples: I tried them all, and passed with flying colors even the 24 bit was accurate, I put the files in the computer and did a Salomon Reed bit rate test and it was there (so I don’t know what people are saying that 24 bit was not good, and that their not all created equal, 24 bit is 24 bit, and I think Roland is using a 32 bit floating point accuracy comparator, which makes it much better (probably selectable in some future update). I did a wind recording at my backyard pine tree, with a Sanken, a Schoeps and a AT boundary mic at 192K it really sounded sweet !!!.

Physical unit: Yes the buttons feel plasticky, because they are, and the pots are not attached to the face like other units so they waver a bit, and gives it that home stereo feel, of course not a NAGRA tank, but they are reliable, no noise, no sweep problems, no dead spots, they are shielded and sealed, so it works. The overall of the unit seems solid, the battery case is plastic, but the thumb screws are metal and tight, the whole assembly comes out so there might be some rechargeable battery in the works for it.
All the connectors feel solid and click right, the XLRs all lock and release perfectly. The headphone jack is a ¼” and in the front, it locks, but if you use a 90 degree right angle adapter as you move it to the side it sort of ramps up the edge and disconnects.
The connectors in the back are also good and a welcome idea to have all inputs to direct selectable outputs, can be used for many things, multiple backup records, broadcast feed mix to Sat truck, track minus talent, talent minus track, effects minus talent, Air minus talent, IFB mix, RTS mix, Secondary language mix and so on, other sub mixes, if doing stage a sub mix to monitoring, or talent, etc.) I would say useful, does not hurt to have.

Features: I think it has great features, very easy access to everything, I would say you can do a variety of changes with 2 button pushes and display, everything is right there, simple interface, fast access, and easy way back with one button push (for quick changes).
File structure is good and customizable, it does not have pre build templates like SD or others, but I like the hands on approach, I easily created a Movie Title Project, a sub with the scene number and take and then 7 users prebuilt for other scenes, so 2 quick pushes I had this.

BATMAN------|
|Scene22A_T0001—8 Channels + Mix
|Scene22A_T0002---8 Channels + Mix
|Scene22B_T0001---4 Channels + Mix
Etc., etc., etc…, you can create yet another sub under scenes, for Room tone, weird noises, farting, spiritual encounters, or some other unknown reason, as far as i tested you can have as many subs dirs. as you want, with in the FAT32 file system. Writing with the display is very easy, has all letters, caps, symbols, numbers etc., complete. I would like the Display a bit bigger, color and better definition, but as is, works perfect, accurately. I think the touch screen and the choices on it are good and a pleasure to use.

Controls placement: Everything you need in a flash is there, including a hold, slate and tone, easy to switch headphone monitoring to any source or combination you like, gain right away, phantom individually controlled and a physical switch on each input (not some cumbersome, file, menus tree, and system 7 knob selections).
Record and play 1 icon on top of display, all important information on main screen, a Spectrum analyzer (pretty accurate too) Display, very visible during daylight. A good delay adjustment (if needed) on all channels. A 3 band sweepable EQ, (no other production mixer has it) the ability to gang (link) multiple things together (inputs, outs, eq, arm, levels, individual sets or sets of 4 and 4).

Ins and Outs: All the 8 inputs are XLR, all the direct also, 2 XLR for main mix, plus a 3.5mm mix (for Comtek, or second head set), Time code in and out on BNC (instead of Hirose, or Lemo $200.00 cables needed). Pretty solid USB connectors, (not your crappy Chinese type that fall apart). Solid springy SD card port, solid in and out. Digital in and Out, very good and noticed NO (Unusual) delays or lag in AES. (I embedded and de embedded to HDSDI and back to analog, and it was solid, with a couple of AJAS, a NANO Flash, Broadcast camera and JVC & Panasonic Broadcast/Film monitors with Audio de embedder to analog audio.

Audio interface: Runs great, test it with Sonar X2-3, Reason, Protools, Sound Forge, Vegas and a few more, perfect, no noticeable delay, and it sounded good and does simultaneous no problem, with a Mac Pro and a PC.
I ordered the UM one midi interface to test a couple of fader units see how that goes (that would be the final complement to this unit, because nobody else does that either, except, Tascam and that one looks basic too, with no options to use anything else). There is an Icon Pro (looks a little clownish in colors and under developed/basic) The J Cooper, looks like an industrial project box, and its expensive for what it is and does, there’s a Beringer, (chepo depo), basic- basic.
My goal would be the Mackie Pro Universal Midi/USB, has 8 channels plus master, none of the others do, and according to the Roland Midi assignments sheet of the unit, I could have almost everything programmed to the control surface including, EQ, gains, sends, arm/disarm, soloing, etc., etc.

I SMELL FEAR from the other manufacturers and there is a reason, IT’S A GOOD UNIT, not as pretty as an SD aluminum billet, or NAGRA acid washed aluminum frame, but it will definitely give everybody in the industry a run for their money.
SD rushed the NEW 633 so much that the already have 2 updates to fix it, it’s a carbon fiber body, and it’s a few dollars more than Roland, it only does 6 channels but they advertise 10, two of them you cant use for anything more than recording another stereo mix, or the conversations about women on set with the boom guy. In practice you have 6 channels, which only can be 3 mics, and 3 line unless you use line amps or the other way around. The menus are complicated and cumbersome. The display looks gorgeous, but so does the dash in my M5, neither record 10 usable channels, phantoms are only 3 and software driven, the headphone outputs are not as easy to get to, and that’s why they made favorites menu for it. It definitely doesn’t sound 700 dollar better, and you have to buy a sleuth of new cables and unusual hookups, eats batteries like crazy, at best you get 1.5 hours. Your second output on a 3.5mm (X3X4)is a duplicate of headphone out, so any selection you make goes out to Comtek (L+R,L &R,L,R, mono)-(I can hear the producer yelling, something is wrong with audio!!!). No direct outs of any input. No expansion possible (or link to other unit).
Zaxcom too, has another unit out with another array of short comings and needed extras to work properly.
Tascam, HPS 82 has become a dinosaur, and really was never a good contender.
SD 788 same thing.
I wish we had other USA made units, and better choices, a Lectrosonics of mixer/recorders ( Lectrosonics because they are well made, logically designed, normally priced, and great support), but since we don’t, we do what we can.


Overall: I personally think it’s a great unit, it has a lot of features none other has, the only one that can be sitting in a cart fully loaded, with control surface and computer simultaneous back up, and disconnect one USB and run to the field to do a pickup, wild sound or a hero car run, comeback plug in one USB and up and running from your favorite chair chewing on a Twizzler.

Wish List: A better definition color display, changeable frequency of tones, 440, 1k, 10k (or anything in between), a side headphone jack, another stereo mix output, selectable assignment cross channels (e.g. Audio in 1 to 8 only with or without slate or arming track). A square footprint, instead of that triangular trapezoidal waist of space. All controls attached to front face. Separate cover for USB and SD card. Simultaneous record to SD and USB storage (SSD Drive), EXFat and/or NTSF file system choices, plastic framing to a anodized aluminum. More space or no frame, on bottom input XLR to accommodate right angle connectors.
I think that’s it for now, let’s see what Roland or Santa can do.


Reality check!!!, How many times are you really recording 8 full track plus a mix; is pretty aluminum worth 10 grand out of your pocket, or is having the overly expensive tool make the mechanic???.
A good sound guy with decent gear can do a lot, I think the manufacturers of high end gear, still think that everybody in the film and television business make 2 or 3 million a year,… I DON’T… I wish, but I still would buy the piece of equipment that gives me the best use, features and reliability. I don’t want to carry 40 pieces of gear anymore. Editing and shooting on the road in the late 80’s and early 90’s, I carried 42 cases, 2 BetaCam SP, 2 ¾ inch, a VHS, a grass valley switcher, a Sony BV900 editor, a Chyron, BVW 400 Camera, all the cables, batteries and power supplies, with transformers for all the voltages in the world. I can do all of that with one software, one laptop, one camera, today.

Continued
Old 11th December 2013
  #95
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🎧 5 years
Roland R88 (Part2)

NOTE: Guys, you talk about the quiet pre’s and bla bla, but yet the producers have us recording an important dialog at the end of the runway at MIA or LAX,(that a plane leaves every 32 seconds), or they let the talent wear the noisiest shoes or fabric that has ever been made, also, we bust our humps to record the best on location sound, and then they have a 2 year old music mixer, that uses mp3 sound effects files for the show.
Let’s be realistic, the wheel was invented a long time ago, we do our best, and try to keep as much of the little money they want to pay for us. Even do we get paid better than McDonalds, Sound is not like the hey days, and over all we have a tremendous amount of overhead and maintenance that other departments don’t have (DP gets rentals, lighting gets rentals, electrical gets rentals, director puts nothing, producer puts less, but us we usually own our gear, yet the talent forgets to take the mic off/or IFB going to the bathroom and we lose a mic or a TX/RX in the toilet and the producer plays dumb for days, or has a high deductible and cries like a baby.)


Remember this: Everybody is HD and 2K, 4K, 8K allK, digital HDSDI, 1.5G, 3G, 6G, but WE humans are all analog, and not the best Actor, Singer or performer in the world can do Digital out the throat, we still have to record analog sound and reproduce to analog ears, so sound is (almost) forever, and you don’t need a lens filter or a scrim for that.

Christian S.
Old 11th December 2013
  #96
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🎧 5 years
The most detailed review I have read on the unit. Thanks.
Old 12th December 2013 | Show parent
  #97
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🎧 5 years
No problem, Polytope
Old 12th December 2013 | Show parent
  #98
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The Listener's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Great review!

I can add that I still use it for many tasks and it performs great - it sounds good, certainly more than adequate for location recording of dialogue and ambient fx for movies/TV. We just premiered the TV show that will be a certain breakthrough in our country - a first more urban and artistically filmed TV drama with many different locations, complex scenes, etc. R-88 went through difficult tasks and it delivered...
Old 12th December 2013 | Show parent
  #99
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener ➡️
Great review!

I can add that I still use it for many tasks and it performs great - it sounds good, certainly more than adequate for location recording of dialogue and ambient fx for movies/TV. We just premiered the TV show that will be a certain breakthrough in our country - a first more urban and artistically filmed TV drama with many different locations, complex scenes, etc. R-88 went through difficult tasks and it delivered...
It seems like the R-88 is great for TV. I wonder how it stacks up against the TASCAM DR-680 and the SD 788T when it comes to recording classical music.
Old 13th December 2013
  #100
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🎧 5 years
Hi everyone, I’ll try to address the questions and concerns on this response.
Sorry about the (Bla, Bla, it wasn’t meant in a demeaning or derogatory way, just lazy), it was late and I didn’t really start to make that long of a review, to be honest, I have been on the internet since 1994, and HAVE NEVER POSTED A REVIEW or a comment on anything, but this time I was so frustrated that there was nothing on a device, I thought it deserved something, I always believed that credit should be given when credit is due.

First I’m, not a rep, or related to Roland in anyway, actually, the last time a touched a Roland device I think it was about 10 years ago, as everybody else I considered Roland a musical instrument, it was never in my radar for what we do, Sound, anytime anybody mentioned Roland, the first thought in my mind was a keyboardist, or a guitar player with a boss effects box.
The idea of checking the R88 came about when my son wanted to come in to do sound, and I was looking for something he could use on smaller (lower budget projects) and still have a decent recording without dishing out 6, 7 or 8 K, because for one of those anomalies of life, when your kids need something you get stuck with the bill, LOL.
When I purchased my first NAGRA IV-s 4.2, I mortgaged my house, now let’s be clear I have 722, 744, 788, AE, and NAGRA, etc., they are beautiful devices, and they run for ever, loved them would use them always, I have never talked against them, other than I think these companies have sat on their laurels, and for the price, are not giving us a better piece of gear, for the most part, all of them, have improved manufacturing on their end, but have not improved on features on ours, if you have a 2007 T788, and a 2013 T788 it’s about the same unit (plus or minus some firmware updates and fixes), and I know what everybody is going to say—Why change what works?--- it not the point, there should be improvements, and betterment as we move forward. Every 6 months Smartphone manufacturers give you a new device with this or the other little gadget on it, cars have special features added every year model change, I think this should have that energy too, also I understand that if you do changes, the model before drops in price, the more it stays the same the more it retains its value, but I would really like it to improve. Also if we are realistic, most manufacturers would like you to buy multiple peripherals to do EXTRA stuff, it seems TO ME that Roland decided to give you these little extra things without having to.

Today’s recorders depend mostly on the electronics, and if you look inside, there is a few manufacturers of IC chips in the world, that are shared between all of them, yes they built certain things or designs to manufacturer’s specs, but, you might find a NEC audio processor on your Sound Devices, that is also in another unit, or the output drivers are the same on a GE unit installed in a Boeing 767 radio system (this is just a general example, a wide brush stroke, don’t jump me saying you disassembled the radio in a Boeing 767 going to Qatar and didn’t find the NEC chip).

Metadata entry/editing: Yes it’s very lacking, bare minimum at best, but I sat down for probably 2 minutes and with wave agent it had it all in, of course we want to run after day wrap, and a minute more on set seems a day, but it’s not said that it could not be improved, keyboard added and so on, with future models or updates (I couldn’t find out what memory capacity or eproms it has inside).

Classical music is a different type of animal all together, it takes a lot of work, Very, very good mic placement, a really good set of ears, and personally if I needed to record Classical music Id use a Studer 827, or a D827.
But if I was limited to use this device, and 8 channels were enough or timecode lock 2 or 3 of them to record the music, I would do it, use a higher sample rate, and get the best mic, I could, find, rent or steal. Now if the London philharmonic is hiring you for the project, and you show up with this device, I’d probably shoot you.

Timecode, of course it does a good easy flow with everybody on the same page, but I can’t tell you how many times on first day, (or even a call from others) there is a huge debate, between, DP, with 24FPS and DIT and 23.976, 23.98, etc. etc. Not really my problem, because ill record any frame rate they want, ill modify the unit to do 18 frames for Charlie Chaplin movies with sound, but it is a permanently floating issue here and there.


Bottom line, I think the unit was well thought out, and this will give (as it does) other manufactures incentives to do better, cheaper and efficient.
The unit has shortcomings, but I think over all for 2500.00 you can’t beat it, and again let’s put everything in perspective. Sound devices called the 552 a production mixer/recorder for 3500.00 and does not have timecode gen, and records five channels.

All in all I just wanted to give everybody a overall fell for the unit and what I experienced with it, not a sales pitch, not too put down the quality of other, just that I think it can be a contender, and an eye opener for things to come.


Christian S.
Old 13th December 2013
  #101
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🎧 5 years
Correction, 5 inputs 2 record for the 552.

Christian
Old 13th December 2013 | Show parent
  #102
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the detailed review.

Tom
Old 13th December 2013
  #103
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🎧 5 years
No problem Tom, anytime I can, I will.
Old 13th December 2013 | Show parent
  #104
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtiantv ➡️
Now if the London philharmonic is hiring you for the project, and you show up with this device, I’d probably shoot you.
Looks like I won't be recording the London Philharmonic anytime soon!

But I think I read a post (by NorseHorse?) that said one could record the New York Philharmonic with a modded R-44.
Old 13th December 2013
  #105
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
I really don't think it would be a problem, if it was done in analog years ago it can be done with this machine.
Old 18th December 2013 | Show parent
  #106
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🎧 10 years
Mixing Capabilities

When it comes to DAW setup in a home studio type situation. Has anyone used this function and if so what do you think?
When it comes to the Mixing stage, i feel like real faders would be much better for most people (myself included).
I know you can hook up some sort of Midi controller that works as Physical faders, but i don't think this would be as precise as proper faders.
Is it possible to hookup something similar to the R88 like the Cl9 for example for the 788t????
Old 18th December 2013 | Show parent
  #107
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The Listener's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRSsound ➡️
When it comes to DAW setup in a home studio type situation. Has anyone used this function and if so what do you think?
When it comes to the Mixing stage, i feel like real faders would be much better for most people (myself included).
I know you can hook up some sort of Midi controller that works as Physical faders, but i don't think this would be as precise as proper faders.
Is it possible to hookup something similar to the R88 like the Cl9 for example for the 788t????
We did ADR with the unit at the production's facilities - it was easier to get actors there than to our studio. It worked without a hiccup, integrated with Nuendo well, but it doesn't have such extended software routing interface and mixer as for example RME soundcards and similar well done interfaces have and it has no MIDI, etc. it is really just channels in, channels out type of soundcard... But it works well if you only need that. If you search for a soundcard and don't need its standalone recorder functionality something like RME UFX is cheaper and better as just a soundcard... the sound is probably similar... but Roland sounds very good. I still wait for some comparison tests against Sound Devices...
Old 28th December 2013
  #108
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hello. I bought this recorder in late summer and has worked with him for two low-budget independent film project. There were symphony concerts, opera performances, one TV show and various parties and weddings nonpoor citizens.))) I like how it sounds with the Sanken Koss 11, Senheyser MKH-418, and other condenser microphones. And while there are no problems, except for one.The fact that I live in Siberia, and in the winter we can be pretty cold. Twice it worked fine on the street. But then it was only the beginning of winter. The temperature was -5-7 Celsius. Five days ago, I brought it out of the trunk of my car in a warm concert hall. I gave him 15-20 minutes to warm up, but 1 and 2 inputs are not opened. I waited another 15 minutes and sent signals from FOH to the inputs 3-4. Only if they have earned. 1-2 inputs opened immediately thereafter. It seems he did not like our cold. Especially temperature changes. Of course, I read the instructions and understand that any equipment does not like winter. But my ancient DAT TASCAM DA-P1 works quietly in the winter at -30 Celsius and cheap recorders Marantz PMD-66 .. also worked in such conditions, although they dimmed displays)) After Christmas will need to shoot a few scenes outdoors. And now I'm afraid to do it with him.
I bought for him to ebay three Chinese battery for $ 27))) Each feeds 4 hungry condenser microphone for six hours.
I ask forgiveness for all my English.
Old 28th December 2013 | Show parent
  #109
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boojum's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murzikov Evgeny ➡️
Hello. The temperature was -5-7 Celsius. Five days ago, I brought it out of the trunk of my car in a warm concert hall. I gave him 15-20 minutes to warm up, but 1 and 2 inputs are not opened. I waited another 15 minutes and sent signals from FOH to the inputs 3-4. Only if they have earned. 1-2 inputs opened immediately thereafter. It seems he did not like our cold. Especially temperature changes.
Your English is way better than my Russian. I would be careful with bringing that recorder from your trunk to a warm hall because of condensation. Storing the recorder in a sealed plastic bag would help to prevent condensation.
Old 19th January 2014 | Show parent
  #110
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFrommann ➡️
I have a R88 here for testing. Can't find information, wether it is possible to feed line signals into the XLR inputs, from an external preamp for example. Any ideas?
First impression of the preamp quality when recording acoustic guitar is very good. Compared to my ULN8 I hear a difference and I like the ULN8 more, but without comparison, the R88 sounds pretty good.
More testing in the next days

Ronald
Just to calibrate, for my understanding, the R88 against the SD788T and ULN-8 sonically, I use a Metric Halo ULN-8 and a laptop for classical recording. I was looking at devices like the R88 and SD788T to see if I could downsize my gear and achieve near-perfect reliability, while maintaining the highest level of sound quality. Apparently, while very good, the R88 isn't topmost shelf sonically. If I won the Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes and could afford an SD788T, how does the SD788T compare to the ULN-8 sonically? Anyone have both and an opinion to share?

Thanks!
Old 19th January 2014 | Show parent
  #111
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boojum's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I do not know that this was tested. But, Michael Patrick tested the 788T vs the Nagra VI. The results are in. I think the arguments are almost over. The differences were slight.
Old 19th January 2014 | Show parent
  #112
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JonesH's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcartwright ➡️
Apparently, while very good, the R88 isn't topmost shelf sonically.
It is not. I have tested it against my ULN-8 and the ULN-8 is of course better. The R-88 presents a softer, slightly more pleasing sound compared to the ULN-8's total honesty. But I was very impressed with the R-88, it's a great machine especially considering the price.
Old 20th January 2014
  #113
AB3
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🎧 15 years
l would like to hear some samples of the R88 versus the other contenders. Sounds like there are two situations where it is not advisable: Recording the London Philharmonic or using it in Siberia. And then I read that it lacks a little in accuracy and has warmth. All these things are hard to judge. What would it be out like out in a field recording a jazz or rock group with 8 inputs? Seems like the mics, placement, engineering, etc. may all make up this little bit of difference. It is just hard to say without using it. The price is an obvious attractions.
Boojum - I hope life is treating you well and that our paths get to cross soon!
Old 20th January 2014 | Show parent
  #114
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The Listener's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3 ➡️
l would like to hear some samples of the R88 versus the other contenders. Sounds like there are two situations where it is not advisable: Recording the London Philharmonic or using it in Siberia. And then I read that it lacks a little in accuracy and has warmth. All these things are hard to judge. What would it be out like out in a field recording a jazz or rock group with 8 inputs? Seems like the mics, placement, engineering, etc. may all make up this little bit of difference. It is just hard to say without using it. The price is an obvious attractions.
Boojum - I hope life is treating you well and that our paths get to cross soon!
I admit, I became a fanboi of this machine...

If you are wondering about jazz groups - here are three examples of R-88 in action:

Baobab Muzikafe on Vimeo

Hardlistener on Vimeo

mixhai on Vimeo

And all the dialogue sound, including the voice overs for this TV drama was done with R-88: Življenja Tomaža Kajzerja: Usodni zamah (napovednik) - YouTube

For absolutely fabulous field recording of music - when (if) I grow up, I would get something like Nagra VI... for recording wolves in the forest (as I experienced lately) - something smaller - Sony PCM D100 I guess...

For the money and for completely satisfactory and income generating results - this machine is a winner.
Old 24th January 2014
  #115
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iguanadav's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hi everybody,

I've been thinking of buying new recording gear for field and studio recording (mostly audio for films and classical music), and was going to get the R-88. I've been reading all your comments about it and it seems the R-88 is a winner. But I'm concerned about the input sensitivity and level controls (the dual knobs). What I understand from all your comments and from other threads about the R-44 is that you can only use the input sensitivity knob to adjust the preamp gain in the analog domain, and then the inner level control and the limiter are useless. Also, the input sensitivity knob is built on steps, so changing it while I'm recording will be noticeable on the recorded audio.
Then, if I am in the middle of a film shooting, recording dialog, and want to adjust the levels to avoid clipping when some actor has raised unexpectedly his voice, isn't that possible in a smooth way? I understand that tweaking the inner level knob won't avoid clipping because it is placed after the ADC. And using the limiters won't be useful because they also are placed after the ADC.
I'd like to know how you deal with this, those of you that are using the R-88 for this kind of recordings.

I read something in Oade's web page about this issue (they were talking about the r-44), and would like to get some of your opinions about what they say, as it seems quite opposed to what I have read here:

"Edirol R44 and R4Pro: Basically you want to use as little preamp gain (this is how much the preamp amplifies or increases the signal from the microphone) as possible. So you start with the smaller, inner knob, it's the one closest to you, set at about 2:00 to 3:00, then adjust the outer knob, it moves in 6 dB steps and displays on the LCD readout, until your signal level is around -12dB on the meter. You then tweak the level with the inner knob, it's okay to have it set to max and that is better than moving it toward 12:00 and adding 6 dB of gain with the stepped input trim knob. I like to target between -12dB and -6dB for peak levels when I'm recording, that way when I'm surprised, it does not overload and distort. It's a good idea to use the limiter as you learn. The limiter is a circuit that can momentarily reduce your signal level so the sound does not distort as the digital recorder runs out of bits. A digital over sounds bad and should be avoided. The key is you get the lowest noise and distortion when the outer knob ( that works in 6dB steps) is set as low as possible while still providing a good signal level. Both the outer knob that adjust the input gain in 6dB steps and the inner knob that is continuously variable and allows you to fine tune the signal level are digitally controlled analog gain stages. This simple rule, using as little preamp gain as possible, will allow you to make the very best recording possible with your gear.
Please note, in an effort to reverse the flood of bad info circulating in some recording forums, I suggest reading the technical specifications for the AK4620B series of ADCs used in the R4Pro and the R44 which is available for download from the manufacturer's website or the link below. "- Input PGA: 0dB to +18dB, 0.5dB/step (for single-ended input)" This is a digitally controlled analog Programmable Gain Amplifier that is controlled by the inner gain knob. Furthermore, the block diagram, supplied by the A/D converter's manufacturer, clearly shows the PGA or analog gain circuit ahead of the analog to digital conversion process in the signal chain. This is essential or 24 bit resolution could not be achieved. I strongly suggest you not set the inner knob to 12:00 and add gain in post, this compromises the quality of your recordings.
It's equally obvious there is no digital gain stage in the AK4620B series of A/D converters but there is digital attenuation and a digital output mute function."


Thank you very much in advance!!!

Davit.
Old 24th January 2014 | Show parent
  #116
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by iguanadav ➡️

Please note, in an effort to reverse the flood of bad info circulating in some recording forums, I suggest reading the technical specifications for the AK4620B series of ADCs used in the R4Pro and the R44 which is available for download from the manufacturer's website or the link below. "- Input PGA: 0dB to +18dB, 0.5dB/step (for single-ended input)" This is a digitally controlled analog Programmable Gain Amplifier that is controlled by the inner gain knob. Furthermore, the block diagram, supplied by the A/D converter's manufacturer, clearly shows the PGA or analog gain circuit ahead of the analog to digital conversion process in the signal chain. This is essential or 24 bit resolution could not be achieved. I strongly suggest you not set the inner knob to 12:00 and add gain in post, this compromises the quality of your recordings.
It's equally obvious there is no digital gain stage in the AK4620B series of A/D converters but there is digital attenuation and a digital output mute function."


Thank you very much in advance!!!

Davit.
This is interesting and seems to contradict the block diagram on Roland's website, which shows that Level (inner knob), controls the signal AFTER the AD converters.

Hmmm...

Tom
Old 25th January 2014
  #117
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JonesH's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Indeed. It also seems to conflict with the fact that you can attenuate your signal well below 0 dBFS using the inner knob and still clip your recording. Oh well.

You'll be happy to know that the R-88 has the functionality to select whether you want the inner knob to act as a fader (monitor/mix only, not affecting the ISO/tracks) or as a gain adjustment (to recorded ISO/tracks AND mix of course).
Old 25th January 2014 | Show parent
  #118
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Id love for somebody from Roland to adress this directly and in detail.
Old 30th January 2014 | Show parent
  #119
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iguanadav's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
OK, so it seems that the only control you have over the pre-amp gain is the outer knob (gain steps).

So... I would like to know if anyone using the R-88 for production sound has encountered a problem in a real situation where the source is so loud that you get clipping and you have to adjust gain on the fly (I suppose that turning down the sensitivity one step will be quite noticeable in the recorded audio)

Also, are the limiters in this case achieving anything? For what Xtiantv has said, it seems that the limiters are working OK. Does this mean that they are placed before the ADC?

Thanks a lot.


Davit.
Old 30th January 2014 | Show parent
  #120
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The Listener's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by iguanadav ➡️
OK, so it seems that the only control you have over the pre-amp gain is the outer knob (gain steps).

So... I would like to know if anyone using the R-88 for production sound has encountered a problem in a real situation where the source is so loud that you get clipping and you have to adjust gain on the fly (I suppose that turning down the sensitivity one step will be quite noticeable in the recorded audio)

Also, are the limiters in this case achieving anything? For what Xtiantv has said, it seems that the limiters are working OK. Does this mean that they are placed before the ADC?

Thanks a lot.


Davit.
Limiters and level knob is post ADC... I set the clipping indicator at -6 dbfs and I recorded dialogue between -20dbfs and -12dbfs with occassional loud shouts reaching -6, and EXTREME loud things peaking near 0... but there is so much headroom that I never had clipped signal and if by mistake I had - it is a dynamic situation and if the camera crew can cause numerous repeated takes because of several factors, the sound department can have some issues too, no? But there were none caused by this gain/sensitivity "issue".

It is not a problem... only if you want it to be... and 24bit is our friend. The thing has all the headroom you would need. I also had loud barking dogs, very loud shouting actors, gun shots, etc. and it was not a problem...

I did use the little level knob to print the dynamic on ISO tracks, though... to already have a more balanced raw track to start mixing from...

My "baptism by fire" rookie project (all sound including the trailer voice overs was recorded with R-88 and Sennheiser MKH60/70) is here: Življenja Tomaža Kajzerja | Kdo je Tomaž Kajzer?
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