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Mid Priced Ribbon for Classical Guitar
Old 26th May 2006
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Talking Mid Priced Ribbon for Classical Guitar

I am looking at either the Beyer m160, the Crowley and Tripp Naked Eye, or the Peluso R14. Does anyone have experience with these or others in their price range that would work well for classical guitar?
Old 26th May 2006
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
newnes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
AEA R92 is nice on classical and acoustic guitar and it's only around $800. It has reduced proximity effect so you can get it really close to the guitar and it has nice detail in the high end. You'll need a ton of gain though as it's output is a little lower than some ribbons due to the extended high end response. I don't have experience with the others on classical guitar but from what I have heard M160 on, it might be a bit dark for this.

Craig.
Old 26th May 2006 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The only one of the ones you mentioned I know is the Peluso. It's sweet. You do have to watch the proximity effect with it though. I've been oparing it to the Royer 121 and the AEA r84. It sounds great.
Old 26th May 2006 | Show parent
  #4
T9c
Gear Maniac
 
T9c's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I tried my new R14 on classical last night and didn't have enough gain to get a good sound without pushing it 2" in front of the soundhole. I've gotten great tone from my 2247 with the classical lately, though. As a sidenote, I tracked solo fiddle and mando with the R14 and it sounds pretty dark. Darker than my M160, FWIW. I must admit I need to work with it a little while longer to make any valid judgements about it though. The M160 is gonna be your least expensive of the three. $425 at Amazon.com (FullCompass Music). Search for Beyer.


Rick
Old 26th May 2006 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What pre were you using for the R-14 Rick? I was using Millennia HV-3. I've used it on a couple of steel string Taylors against the 121 and R84 and had to use about the same amount of gain for each. They al had similar tonal characteristics too. I think the Peluso had more ronounced low end but the mids and highs were pretty ball park similar.
Old 26th May 2006 | Show parent
  #6
T9c
Gear Maniac
 
T9c's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Henry,
I tried it on my MP2NV and Sytek straight into Mytek Stereo 96 A/D. Granted neither of these have particularly hot gain: 60-65db. Gain was dimed on both pre's. Maybe that could be an issue. I am thinking of re-sending the outputs into the line inputs of my 828mk2 and seeing if that will boost the gain without going overboard. At least I'll be able to cop a -10db input somewhere in the chain.

At this point, I think the M160 is a hotter mic than the R14. Or it may be due to the pattern differences. I mic'ed the instruments with the R14 "8" engraving facing the source. Is this the correct placement?

I haven't tried steel string gtr yet, but that's on my short list to do.

Rick
Old 26th May 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
flail19's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have used the Beyer M160 and a John Hardy m1 on a classical guitar once and IMHO it killed! very warm sounding.
Old 26th May 2006 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
T.RayBullard's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I use the M130 and 160 all the time for this purpose. Sounds fantastic!

Im about to get my 130/160 modded with RCA ribbons, supposed to make a world of difference.
Old 27th May 2006 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
I was under the impression that ribbons lacked the detail needed for classical guitar. This is what Steve Albini said, but whatever. I don't know much about it.
Old 27th May 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
T.RayBullard's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drive All Day
I was under the impression that ribbons lacked the detail needed for classical guitar. This is what Steve Albini said, but whatever. I don't know much about it.
By all means, if steve albini said it....

I like mixing one ribbon with a omni like the MK221. or an omni and an LDC.
Old 2nd June 2006 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
ajfarber's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Mid priced ribbons, I'm guessing, would include: Beyers, Royer 121/SF1, AEA r84, Coles 4038? Not AEA44$$$ or the cheap Chinese stuff.

I'm gonna say Royer SF1 (mono version of the SF12). It's crisper than the 121, ever so slightly.

For solo classical guitar, one must have a quiet pre amp to go with. I like tube stuff but many classical engineers may think them a bit noisey.

An associate of mine just picked up a couple of Grace 101s, the kind with extra gain for ribbon mics. He got these to record classical music with Coles 4038s in a Blumlein configuration. I'm guessing they'd mic a nice match with the Royer for recording guitar.
Old 2nd June 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
T.RayBullard's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The DAV BG-1 has plenty of gain too. I use it with my ribbons all the time.

Teddy
Old 5th June 2006 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
That "lack of detail" can be a blessing on a classical guitar. If you think about the techniques required to record a guitar well, they all depend on a fairly close placement. That means that there will be a lot of sensitivity towards production sounds- finger slides (left hand), picking sounds (right hand), etc... I've found that a ribbon will keep the meat of the sound, but minimize some of the production noise that is anything but attractive.

The Royer SF-24 is a favorite for classical guitar, but I've used the Beyer 160 a number of times with *very* good results. Also, it isn't classical, but it is acoustic- Ralph Towner of the group Oregon uses a Beyer 160 on stage for performance. I've used it a couple times on him and it sounds great.

--Ben
Old 5th June 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Nu-tra's Avatar
I just bought my M160 at full compass for $424 new! I couldn't believe how cheap it was. I love it on electric guitar and hi hat
Old 16th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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DanRock101's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
FORGET MID PRICED! Save a few hundred bucks more and a GREAT classic mic! (Oh yeah and get at least one GREAT preamp).

I use a Coles 4038 ($1,100) into a Wunder PEQ1r or an API (I also tried it through my Millennia & Apogee Ensemble pres; all above were plenty of gain)....... Give it a little HPF and maybe (depending on the context) some high end and you're there. Unless you want a scooped shimmery sound (which is great for pure strumming needs), the Coles is a winner.

Also, check out the Royer website. The LA Guitar Quartet is using the R122v (tube mic) on their recording, and those guys are ALL about classical guitar tone, so, that would be a great option at which to look.
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
m-260 has a built in rolloff that saves you a step and put at just the right point, I have 3, ac gtr, small amps trumpet, accordeon, they're not 8s so you solve another problem without having to gobo any. form factor easy to get close. cheaper and easier to fix, 1 ribbon instead of 2
Old 19th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
DanRock101's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7rojo7 ➑️
m-260 has a built in rolloff that saves you a step and put at just the right point, I have 3, ac gtr, small amps trumpet, accordeon, they're not 8s so you solve another problem without having to gobo any. form factor easy to get close. cheaper and easier to fix, 1 ribbon instead of 2
Wouldn't having a roll-off on a ribbon defeat the purpose of the mic picking up the FULL dimension/spectrum of sound being fed into it and change the response of what it's recording? I mean, HP AFTER the fact and you're there, right? Or am I bitch?
Old 19th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRock101 ➑️
Also, check out the Royer website. The LA Guitar Quartet is using the R122v (tube mic) on their recording, and those guys are ALL about classical guitar tone, so, that would be a great option at which to look.
Doing a classical guitar recording (ensemble playing with flute, oboe/english horn, and cello) and I have a pair of R122v mics to play with. Can't wait- an awesome ribbon and should sound like gold on the guitar.

--Ben
Old 19th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I've used an AEA R-88 on classical guitar - very special sound and avoids the squeaks and finger noise that condensers show up. It goes without saying that if you're recording solo classical guitar you'll want to do it in stereo.
Old 19th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Nut
 
opegas's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRock101 ➑️
Also, check out the Royer website. The LA Guitar Quartet is using the R122v (tube mic) on their recording, and those guys are ALL about classical guitar tone, so, that would be a great option at which to look.
If you look real carefully at the pictures on Royer's site you will see an R88 poking into the frame.

And nobody is talking about placement!!! How your going to use it is pretty important. Proximity can be a problem and the m-260 and the R92 have some roll off. You can get a more balanced sound at a closer distance without going to the eq knob. If you are going to be a few more feet out you might not want to use those mics.

Paul
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