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Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #121
Lives for gear
 
Earcatcher's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Do you have the microphones in front of you and plugged in? I do.
As it happens, I do too. I try to only talk when I have first hand experience with the stuff I talk about. Don't think you are alone in that. My experience is undoubtedly very limited compared to yours and I have no problem admitting that. But do not dismiss my words based on arrogant prejudice.
Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #122
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
But the mic. capsule voltage is not necessarily the 48V phantom voltage.

Neumann up this to 60V as far as I am aware and Gefell up this to 80V for the M221.
What does one use to supply that kind of voltage?
Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #123
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by polytope ➡️
What does one use to supply that kind of voltage?
DC/DC converter inside the mic body
Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #124
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by polytope ➡️
What does one use to supply that kind of voltage?
It's a DC/DC converter inside the mic. that takes in the 48V and ups it to the voltage that the microphone requires.
Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #125
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher ➡️
As it happens, I do too. I try to only talk when I have first hand experience with the stuff I talk about. Don't think you are alone in that. My experience is undoubtedly very limited compared to yours and I have no problem admitting that. But do not dismiss my words based on arrogant prejudice.
Please don't make the mistake of saying I'm arrogant, Earcatcher. I'm informed and there is a difference.

If you would fill out your profile and tell us more about your work, then we would have more to go on.

please note: I have removed some accusatory language here after Earcatcher informed me that he did not diss Tony F.

Last edited by Plush; 11th December 2012 at 12:07 AM.. Reason: he informed me he didn't diss Tony F.
Old 10th December 2012 | Show parent
  #126
Schallfeldwebel
Guest
One pair B&K's

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener ➡️

I record mostly world music and jazz,
Hello Listener,

This link shows you a live jazz performance recorded with one pair of B&K's omni's. The room was dry, audience 60 people.

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/eriksikk....Johansson.mp3
Old 11th December 2012 | Show parent
  #127
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
But the mic. capsule voltage is not necessarily the 48V phantom voltage.

Neumann up this to 60V as far as I am aware and Gefell up this to 80V for the M221.
I don't want to get electrocuted.

I have to admit I like the way the little 4060 mics compress the dynamic range slightly. Very detailed but slightly surreal.
Old 11th December 2012
  #128
Lives for gear
 
amfortas2006's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu ➡️
I don't want to get electrocuted.
Hehe!

The Josephsons C617 that I have up it to 200V :-P
And my 4063 work when given 3V.

Both sound good

D. Josephson said that the m221 capsule "doesn't have to work that hard" because it is polarized to 200V.
It does sound great!
Old 11th December 2012
  #129
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
You don't want to come down with electroids.
Old 11th December 2012 | Show parent
  #130
Lives for gear
 
MichaelPatrick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by amfortas2006 ➡️
D. Josephson said that the m221 capsule "doesn't have to work that hard" because it is polarized to 200V.
He told me once that the capsule is sub-micron thick and "highly compliant" to pressure.

It gives me the image of little 200 volt electrons dancing on a trampoline.
Old 12th December 2012
  #131
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundKlang ➡️
This is really an interesting discussion. I got an idea of what is happening inside a microphone and why the capsule voltage may be so important (please excuse if I use wrong words in the following, my english may be insufficient when it comes to technical terms in electronics):

In theory, the membrane and the backplate of a condenser mic are a plate capacitor. The electrical charge (the number of excess/missing electrons in the membrane and backplate) is proportional to the voltage. The higher the capsule voltage the more excess/missing electrons in the membrane and backplate. The movement of the membrane causes a change in the distance between the membrane and the backplate. This causes a flow of electrons (=a changing electric current) which in turn causes a proportional change in output voltage.

There are two variables which control the amount of flowing electrons by the movement of the membrane:
1) The movement of the membrane itself, which is greater a) the higher the SPL and b) the more "highly compliant" the membrane is, which is depending on the size, the material and the thickness of the membrane.
2) The amount of excess/missing electrons on the membrane which is directly dependent on the capsule voltage.

So the higher the capsule voltage and the more "highly compliant" the membrane, the higher the change in output voltage with the tiniest changes in SPL. Isn't that what roominformation is, when reverb time is defined by -60dB SPL (1/64 of original SPL)?

If it was that "simple" then in general microphones with the highest sensitivity (=highest capsule voltage and highest compliance to pressure?) and the lowest self noise (less buried in noise) should also be most able to capture a stereo image. I mean, in theory ...

[Audio Technica AT4021 : 19.9 mV/Pa // 14 dB Self Noise (I know the AT 4021 is not in the same league; only because I know this mic and compared to the Schoeps it shows, it can't be the specifications alone)]

Schoeps MK2H: 15 mV/Pa // 11 dB Self Noise
Sonodore RCM-402: 40mV/Pa // 15.5 dB Self Noise (in another thread someone wrote the Sonodore would be soundwise between the Schoeps and the Dpa)
Dpa 4006: 35 mV/Pa // 15 dB Self Noise
Gefell M221 : 50 mV/Pa // 15 dB Self Noise
Josephson C617 Set : 66 mV/Pa // 14 dB Self Noise

If I compare these specifications with the perception of details and roominformation in the above mentioned comparison Test micros omnis - DPA / Schoeps / MicroTech Gefell / Josephson maybe there really is a connection between sensitivity & self noise and detail and imaging of a microphone. But I am not sure, maybe it's just coincidence and I am completely on the wrong track here.
In general, the smaller the capsule, and the higher the maximum sound
pressure level without distortion, the more difficult it is for the designer
of the microphone to keep the self noise of the microphone down.
Old 12th December 2012
  #132
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundKlang ➡️
This is really an interesting discussion. I got an idea of what is happening inside a microphone and why the capsule voltage may be so important (please excuse if I use wrong words in the following, my english may be insufficient when it comes to technical terms in electronics):

In theory, the membrane and the backplate of a condenser mic are a plate capacitor. The electrical charge (the number of excess/missing electrons in the membrane and backplate) is proportional to the voltage. The higher the capsule voltage the more excess/missing electrons in the membrane and backplate. The movement of the membrane causes a change in the distance between the membrane and the backplate. This causes a flow of electrons (=a changing electric current) which in turn causes a proportional change in output voltage.

There are two variables which control the amount of flowing electrons by the movement of the membrane:
1) The movement of the membrane itself, which is greater a) the higher the SPL and b) the more "highly compliant" the membrane is, which is depending on the size, the material and the thickness of the membrane.
2) The amount of excess/missing electrons on the membrane which is directly dependent on the capsule voltage.

So the higher the capsule voltage and the more "highly compliant" the membrane, the higher the change in output voltage with the tiniest changes in SPL. Isn't that what roominformation is, when reverb time is defined by -60dB SPL (1/64 of original SPL)?

If it was that "simple" then in general microphones with the highest sensitivity (=highest capsule voltage and highest compliance to pressure?) and the lowest self noise (less buried in noise) should also be most able to capture a stereo image. I mean, in theory ...

[Audio Technica AT4021 : 19.9 mV/Pa // 14 dB Self Noise (I know the AT 4021 is not in the same league; only because I know this mic and compared to the Schoeps it shows, it can't be the specifications alone)]

Schoeps MK2H: 15 mV/Pa // 11 dB Self Noise
Sonodore RCM-402: 40mV/Pa // 15.5 dB Self Noise (in another thread someone wrote the Sonodore would be soundwise between the Schoeps and the Dpa)
Dpa 4006: 35 mV/Pa // 15 dB Self Noise
Gefell M221 : 50 mV/Pa // 15 dB Self Noise
Josephson C617 Set : 66 mV/Pa // 14 dB Self Noise

If I compare these specifications with the perception of details and roominformation in the above mentioned comparison Test micros omnis - DPA / Schoeps / MicroTech Gefell / Josephson maybe there really is a connection between sensitivity & self noise and detail and imaging of a microphone. But I am not sure, maybe it's just coincidence and I am completely on the wrong track here.
In general, the smaller the capsule, and the higher the maximum sound
pressure level without distortion, the more difficult it is for the designer
of the microphone to keep the self noise of the microphone down. But
the smaller the capsule, generally speaking, the more accurate and
detailed the sound. The Josephson and Sonodore omnis have smaller
capsules than the Schoeps.
Old 12th December 2012
  #133
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundKlang ➡️
This is really an interesting discussion. I got an idea of what is happening inside a microphone and why the capsule voltage may be so important (please excuse if I use wrong words in the following, my english may be insufficient when it comes to technical terms in electronics):

In theory, the membrane and the backplate of a condenser mic are a plate capacitor. The electrical charge (the number of excess/missing electrons in the membrane and backplate) is proportional to the voltage. The higher the capsule voltage the more excess/missing electrons in the membrane and backplate. The movement of the membrane causes a change in the distance between the membrane and the backplate. This causes a flow of electrons (=a changing electric current) which in turn causes a proportional change in output voltage.

There are two variables which control the amount of flowing electrons by the movement of the membrane:
1) The movement of the membrane itself, which is greater a) the higher the SPL and b) the more "highly compliant" the membrane is, which is depending on the size, the material and the thickness of the membrane.
2) The amount of excess/missing electrons on the membrane which is directly dependent on the capsule voltage.

So the higher the capsule voltage and the more "highly compliant" the membrane, the higher the change in output voltage with the tiniest changes in SPL. Isn't that what roominformation is, when reverb time is defined by -60dB SPL (1/64 of original SPL)?

If it was that "simple" then in general microphones with the highest sensitivity (=highest capsule voltage and highest compliance to pressure?) and the lowest self noise (less buried in noise) should also be most able to capture a stereo image. I mean, in theory ...

[Audio Technica AT4021 : 19.9 mV/Pa // 14 dB Self Noise (I know the AT 4021 is not in the same league; only because I know this mic and compared to the Schoeps it shows, it can't be the specifications alone)]

Schoeps MK2H: 15 mV/Pa // 11 dB Self Noise
Sonodore RCM-402: 40mV/Pa // 15.5 dB Self Noise (in another thread someone wrote the Sonodore would be soundwise between the Schoeps and the Dpa)
Dpa 4006: 35 mV/Pa // 15 dB Self Noise
Gefell M221 : 50 mV/Pa // 15 dB Self Noise
Josephson C617 Set : 66 mV/Pa // 14 dB Self Noise

If I compare these specifications with the perception of details and roominformation in the above mentioned comparison Test micros omnis - DPA / Schoeps / MicroTech Gefell / Josephson maybe there really is a connection between sensitivity & self noise and detail and imaging of a microphone. But I am not sure, maybe it's just coincidence and I am completely on the wrong track here.
In general, the smaller the capsule, and the higher the maximum sound pressure level without
distortion, the more difficult it is for the designer of the microphone to keep the self noise of the microphone down. But the smaller the capsule, generally speaking, the more accurate and detailed the sound. The Josephson and Sonodore omnis have smaller capsules than the Schoeps.
Old 12th December 2012 | Show parent
  #134
Lives for gear
 
recordinghopkins's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
How do people accidentally make triple posts?
Old 12th December 2012 | Show parent
  #135
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by recordinghopkins ➡️
How do people accidentally make triple posts?
A quadrupal post could make a world record.
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