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XLR panel for mic preamp rack or not....?
Old 5th February 2009
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Question XLR panel for mic preamp rack or not....?

This may sound like a dumb question but for all the remotesters around here. Do you have input panels made for your portable micpre racks, or do you plug XLR snakes straight into your preamps. I'm thinking about making input/output panels for my new 48 channels of micpres, so I don't have people touching or putting dirty XLR ends directly into my Preamps.

Sorry may have just answered my own question.
Time to start soldering.
Old 5th February 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Corran's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've been thinking about doing this, just for ease of connection.

If you don't want to solder but can spend a few extra bucks, redco has these XLR pass throughs that you can put right in an XLR faceplate and use them with short XLR cables, if that makes sense.

Just go here: Redco Audio and it'll probably make sense.
Old 5th February 2009
  #3
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Perfect timing with regard to starting this thread...

I just replied on another thread in reference to building a (Wye cord) connector panel for my mic preamps.

Here's the link > https://gearspace.com/board/remote-p...ml#post3881078

This does not sound like a dumb question to me at all.

I love building panels for my gear, but for different reasons.
I need a quick set-up/breakdown process.
I want to minimize the possibility of a mis-patch.
We build multi-pin connector panels that reduce time and effort, plus it maximizes the the potential to connect things properly.

We have all sorts of panels to make our life on the road a lot easier to deal with.

Some racks have multi-pins, but certain connectors are patched directly because I didn't want to have additional connectors inline that could fail.
If there is no logical reason to extend a connector to a panel we will not install it.

I'm not too worried about people touching or putting their dirty little XLR connectors into our pres, so that is not my motivation for fabricating connector panels.
It's really more about building a quick set-up and breakdown process.
Making life a bit easier with less failure when patching multiple channels and such.

Does this make any sense?

I hope I was able to help you with your situation
Old 5th February 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
For that many channels, yes, I would want patch panels with multipin connectors. I would rather work with a panel than dig around inside a rack.
Old 5th February 2009
  #5
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Just ordered all supplies will be making new XLR input panels on my two 24 channel racks. Will post pics when I get this done. May be a few weeks.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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bobwarren's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
These guys make great gear:
ramtech
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
with that many channels i would do it from the point of view that while its usually easy enough to do an initial patch directly if you have to change out a cable or re patch something its easy to do from a panel but can be time consuming inside a dense rack where during a show you dont have that time to spare.

that's what ive found anyway so good luck with it
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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tnjazz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For me on location a rack panel was an absolute must. I got tired of rooting around inside the rack when it came time to patch in the lines. Invariably I'd knock something else loose if I wasn't careful, so finally I decided to just wire up an input panel and put it on the back side of my rack.

Here's a pic of mine. Pretty simple, really. 24 XLR ins wired to 4 foot tails which plug into the preamps.

I toyed with the idea of multipins on this side but eventually decided against it (Steve Remote made me do it, LOL!) because if I had a single channel fail it would be a lot easier to deal with XLRs than to work around some kind of multipin connector...

Here's a quick pic of mine...

Attached Thumbnails
XLR panel for mic preamp rack or not....?-rackpanel.jpg  
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
On one of our custom API 3124 24 channel racks we installed ELCO90 and XLRs for all inputs and outputs. You had the option of either XLRs or the multi-pins.
The output section also acted as a built in splitter we needed.

I tried to quickly find a picture for your review, but I wasn't on any of the nearby drives.

I found a couple of thread posts showing the back of a few racks and some of the wiring work we done before the panels were installed...

Check it out here > https://gearspace.com/board/remote-p...tml#post577697 and https://gearspace.com/board/remote-p...tml#post334268
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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toolstudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
On our mobile setups we have 12 channel racks. Inputs from stageboxes are on 56pin EDAC, outputs to recorders are 56pin EDACs.

Only the 12 channel rack, which has NEVE 1064s, ISA110s and Helios modules has additional 56pin EDAC for the line inputs

Aditional all Inputs and Outputs are parallel on the XLR panels for safety and direct patching when we don't need the stageboxes.
And we could split the outs that way.
Multiple 30m Mogami Cores plus extender cables with stage boxes. Each 12 channel.

After the recorders we go 24 channel with 90pin EDAC to the montoring mixers.

We have multiple HD24 recorders for Live Recordings and ProTools / Mac Systems for Location producing. All have that in house standart,
so we could combine modular what's needed.

And have three 12 channel systems when recordings are at the same day.....

Fast setup time was the reason when planning that. We just recorded a Live festival in Hamburg with 12 different bands.
Setup time from bringing it out of the car and start Line check was about 45 minutes. Only 5 Edac cables. Going 24channel to their Splitter was the most time
consuming. But we now have some Harting adapters so we have 1 plug into their splitter...

I love putting the EDACs in and have their Splitter 1-24 imedialy coming up on the HD24. No mispatching, no failures because of time pressure..

wolfgang
Attached Thumbnails
XLR panel for mic preamp rack or not....?-mobilerack.jpg  
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
We have a very similar situation going on here.
Like I mentioned before, our API 3124 racks are very similar to yours except for the fact that we're using ELCO90 connectors in a 24 channel configuration.

Nice rig by the way.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Here is a couple of pictures of our custom API 3124 that Paul built for us way back when...

I had the make some changes when they built my set-up.

Since I knew I wanted to extend the XLRs and add ELCOs to a rear panel, I had them install barrier strip connections rather than XLRs so we didn't have all these extra connections in between the mic and the preamplifiers.

I also asked Paul to remove the individual power supply which is in each four channel pre and replace it with one larger external PS for all six preamps.

Twenty-four phantom power switches and red LEDs (for 48V confirmation) were installed on the front of the units for convenience sake.

Oh, and Paul also silk screened our ASL logo on these custom units because he could.
Paul stated that we're the only company (or person) he done this for.
Attached Thumbnails
XLR panel for mic preamp rack or not....?-api3124front_6429.jpg   XLR panel for mic preamp rack or not....?-api3124rear_6435.jpg  
Old 21st September 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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hazelmossobrien's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness ➑️
Here is a couple of pictures of our custom API 3124 that Paul built for us way back when...

I had the make some changes when they built my set-up.

Since I knew I wanted to extend the XLRs and add ELCOs to a rear panel, I had them install barrier strip connections rather than XLRs so we didn't have all these extra connections in between the mic and the preamplifiers.

I also asked Paul to remove the individual power supply which is in each four channel pre and replace it with one larger external PS for all six preamps.

Twenty-four phantom power switches and red LEDs (for 48V confirmation) were installed on the front of the units for convenience sake.

Oh, and Paul also silk screened our ASL logo on these custom units because he could.
Paul stated that we're the only company (or person) he done this for.
why have both ELCOs and XLRs? .......thats an extremely sexy rig, by the the way!
Old 21st September 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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Roland's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I just took delivery of 24 Crookwood I-pre's and Crispin mounted front access XLR's directly on the units. It made much more sense to me rather than scavaging around the back of the flightcase to plug in XLR's. I particularly didn't want to mount another panel with connectors on, purely as it is another "point of failure" and in the situation I plan on using them it wasn't worth while. I can appreciate, though, for certain applications it is a really good option.

Regards


Roland
Old 21st September 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien ➑️
why have both ELCOs and XLRs? .......thats an extremely sexy rig, by the the way!
The simple answer is: I like options.
  • When our racks are interfaced with our patch bays, we usually use the ELCO connectors.
  • When we interface with a simple portable system we go with the XLRs.
  • When applicable, we can also Wye the outputs to the recorders by using both ELCO and XLR connectors.

I have doubled up the ELCOs on some of our other preamps to provide a convenient way to Wye the outputs.

In the pictures above the API preamps were installed in Jethro via its patch bay, so we didn't need to use the XLR connectors. The Patch bay has a built in Wye cord adaptor in the I/O panel above the multi-track recorders.
Old 21st September 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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hazelmossobrien's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness ➑️
The simple answer is: I like options.
  • When our racks are interfaced with our patch bays, we usually use the ELCO connectors.
  • When we interface with a simple portable system we go with the XLRs.
  • When applicable, we can also Wye the outputs to the recorders by using both ELCO and XLR connectors.

I have doubled up the ELCOs on some of our other preamps to provide a convenient way to Wye the outputs.
that makes sense.

but, how did your tec configure both the ins and outs to XLR and ELCO?
Old 21st September 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well, I designed pretty much all our rigs and rack and then have them wired by our techs, but I digress...

Pretty much daisy chain the channels from the API.
It's been awhile since we wired that API rig, but I believe the API channels when to the ELCO first then doubled wired to the individual XLRs.
We have also doubled the wiring are the XLRs on some rigs.
I feel doubling the wire at the XLR is the best way to do the job.
Old 21st September 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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Don S's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I like the panels and multipin connectors. It would make setup faster and makes sense if you're working with lots of tracks. I usually only put out 8 to 12 mics so I'm not sure it's worth the labor in my case. But, I always assumed adding 2 more resistance points (at mic level) in the signal path change the sound a little. Has anyone done a comparison or noticed a difference?
Old 21st September 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Most major recording studios around the world have daisy chained I/O panels with great success.

IMO, the fact that we're talking about inches of wire rather than hundreds of feet is a big factor to consider. I don't think an extra connector hanging on that cable is going to do much to the sound, but that's my take on it. As always, YMMV!!!

We have had these pres out on smaller dates and the XLRs usually come into play, especially when there are only 12 or so mics on the date.
Old 22nd September 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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hazelmossobrien's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness ➑️
Well, I designed pretty much all our rigs and rack and then have them wired by our techs, but I digress...

Pretty much daisy chain the channels from the API.
It's been awhile since we wired that API rig, but I believe the API channels when to the ELCO first then doubled wired to the individual XLRs.
We have also doubled the wiring are the XLRs on some rigs.
I feel doubling the wire at the XLR is the best way to do the job.
oh, neato! so it is just split at the ELCO? soldered from API to the ELCO first, then from the same ELCO connection a wire going to the XLR?

I like the idea of doubling wires into XLR cups, because they have big solder cups. I've never done a project like that, but I will remember this little nugget for when I need to!
Old 22nd September 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
All our ELCOs are crimp style pins, but yes either doubled at the ELCO or XLR depending on the mindset.
Old 22nd September 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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plexisys's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I just got done ordering all my rack panels. I choose to have 32 I/O XLR with Elecos and DSubs on each rack panel. These all make it relatively "foolproof" and give the best flexibility. The XLR and Elcos are all inputs and the DSubs go to three 96 point Audio Accessories Shorti patchbays.

My background is from touring and I wouldn't think of any other setup.
Old 23rd September 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
t_chance's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This has me thinking. A Wye out of the XLR panel to a patchbay in the front of my new setup would really be slick. Am I dreaming, or would this be a slick routing. Anyone see problems or issues with this, or has anyone else here done this?
Old 23rd September 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
XLR panel

t_chance:

If you have not seen it yet, An XLR panel/patch bay like this may help your situation

XLR PATCH BAY
Old 28th September 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
t_chance's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Are terminal blocks OK to use for audio connections? I realize that anything bouncing around might come loose, but this is not the major concern. Would this be a place for RFI to enter the system, or am I just over-analyzing this. Any one use these?
Old 28th September 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
ddageek's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Steve I love your set up ! I have always felt that the importance of quick set up and tear down was highly under rated in any live environment! While my rig is more "portable" based rather than set up for live remote. One thing I always find useful is 1/4 patch bay with all the connections brought out to the back of the rack for when murphy strikes! Many have asked why 1/4 and not Bantom? Simple I can always find extra 1/4 cables
Old 28th September 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by t_chance ➑️
Are terminal blocks OK to use for audio connections? I realize that anything bouncing around might come loose, but this is not the major concern. Would this be a place for RFI to enter the system, or am I just over-analyzing this. Any one use these?
One of the 24 channel API 3124 racks we have were customized with terminal strips instead of the XLRs. You're right, gear usually gets bounced around and that is why all screws and bolts get "Loc-Tite" or a dab of nail polish to hold them tight.
Old 28th September 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek ➑️
Steve I love your set up ! I have always felt that the importance of quick set up and tear down was highly under rated in any live environment! While my rig is more "portable" based rather than set up for live remote. One thing I always find useful is 1/4 patch bay with all the connections brought out to the back of the rack for when murphy strikes! Many have asked why 1/4 and not Bantom? Simple I can always find extra 1/4 cables
Thanks! We work hard to keep our systems as efficient as possible.
The importance of a quick set up and tear down is key.
Old 29th September 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
t_chance's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness ➑️
One of the 24 channel API 3124 racks we have were customized with terminal strips instead of the XLRs. You're right, gear usually gets bounced around and that is why all screws and bolts get "Loc-Tite" or a dab of nail polish to hold them tight.
Thanks Steve,
I saw that they used the strips in the radio station I do work with, but didn't know if was a common practice. The practicality of it for routing seems like a no-brainer. Not that I'm not willing to solder, it just seems to give me more options.
Old 29th September 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
That's what they used before chassis mounted XLRs.

Look at a lot of your vintage gear.
Many of them incorporated barrier strips.
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