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Pipe organ recording equipment and technique
Old 27th October 2022 | Show parent
  #241
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltronic ➡️
Oh, that's quite a bit narrower than I was expecting, but looks correct according to Williams' SZ measurements for how close the array is. 40 cm or so?
I think it was a 30cm AB. it should not be more because of the width of the organ.and the proximity of the mics
Old 27th October 2022
  #242
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
When recording organ, so much of it is about recording the instrument in the space. I recorded a Cassevant organ that was a bit unusual in layout - the pipes were situated hard right and left of the nave, with none in the middle! As a result, I put omnis on tall stands in each of the aisles and then added a tall ORFT in the nave to kind of blend the stereo image. Worked OK I guess.
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Prelude & Toccata.mp3 (11.43 MB, 64 views)

Old 21st December 2022 | Show parent
  #243
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voltronic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I hope to soon record an excellent newly-redone organ. Question for those who use DPA/B&K 4006:

Do you tend to use the default free-field grids, or the diffuse grids? My inclination would be to start with free-field grids because organs are voiced to sound correct out in the congregation, and the distance HF loss you'd get when recording an ensemble that far away would apply less in this situation. Am I thinking about this correctly?
Old 22nd December 2022 | Show parent
  #244
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltronic ➡️
I hope to soon record an excellent newly-redone organ. Question for those who use DPA/B&K 4006:

Do you tend to use the default free-field grids, or the diffuse grids? My inclination would be to start with free-field grids because organs are voiced to sound correct out in the congregation, and the distance HF loss you'd get when recording an ensemble that far away would apply less in this situation. Am I thinking about this correctly?
In most cases I use the free field grid and when more articulation is needed I use the 5cm APE's. Even the free field grid sometimes can be too sharp, esp. with baroque organs. So in a few cases I actually used the trapezium 14K roll-off grid with baroque organ. I never use the diffuse field grids, in my opinion the peak starts too late and is too steep. The 5cm APE's do a better job in case you need more clarity, I think. My 2 cents.
Old 22nd December 2022 | Show parent
  #245
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voltronic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgeltonmeister ➡️
In most cases I use the free field grid and when more articulation is needed I use the 5cm APE's. Even the free field grid sometimes can be too sharp, esp. with baroque organs. So in a few cases I actually used the trapezium 14K roll-off grid with baroque organ. I never use the diffuse field grids, in my opinion the peak starts too late and is too steep. The 5cm APE's do a better job in case you need more clarity, I think. My 2 cents.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Someday I may get a set of APEs, but I'm on the fence between 40 and 50 mm.

Very interesting that you used the roll-off grids. I guess the Baroque organs you are speaking of may have some sharp-sounding stops.
Old 22nd December 2022 | Show parent
  #246
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltronic ➡️
Thanks for sharing your experience. Someday I may get a set of APEs, but I'm on the fence between 40 and 50 mm.

Very interesting that you used the roll-off grids. I guess the Baroque organs you are speaking of may have some sharp-sounding stops.
For the most part the choice between 40 or 50 boils down to the inherent response of the mic you're putting it on. The 40 will sound very upper-midrange-y on a mic with flat response; it requires a mic with a tip-up at the top for a balanced sound. The capsule in the M50 had more top boost than many engineers in the digital era would want, and so the milder top boost of the silver grid 4006 produces a well balanced sound with the 40.

Since the 50 boosts almost the entire top end (rather than just the upper mid-range like the 40), it works best with a very flat-response mic, with little top rise.

The original M50 capsule was up 5dB at 9kHz; the later Mylar capsule was up 6dB. The 4006 with free field grid is up about 3 dB at 12kHz; a good combo for the 40 which is up about the same below that and back down flat by 12kHz - for a nice flat boost in the entire upper-midrange, to the top. The 50 boost begins significantly lower, and extends well into the boost range of the free field grid, for a considerable brighter sound, that's also a bit 'pushy' sounding on many sources.
Old 22nd December 2022 | Show parent
  #247
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voltronic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by M50k ➡️
For the most part the choice between 40 or 50 boils down to the inherent response of the mic you're putting it on. The 40 will sound very upper-midrange-y on a mic with flat response; it requires a mic with a tip-up at the top for a balanced sound. The capsule in the M50 had more top boost than many engineers in the digital era would want, and so the milder top boost of the silver grid 4006 produces a well balanced sound with the 40.

Since the 50 boosts almost the entire top end (rather than just the upper mid-range like the 40), it works best with a very flat-response mic, with little top rise.

The original M50 capsule was up 5dB at 9kHz; the later Mylar capsule was up 6dB. The 4006 with free field grid is up about 3 dB at 12kHz; a good combo for the 40 which is up about the same below that and back down flat by 12kHz - for a nice flat boost in the entire upper-midrange, to the top. The 50 boost begins significantly lower, and extends well into the boost range of the free field grid, for a considerable brighter sound, that's also a bit 'pushy' sounding on many sources.
Thanks for the thorough explanation. It sounds like the 40 is the one I want. I was already leaning that way after hearing the comparison I posted earlier with wind symphony.
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