wow, what's happening here?
that's how it should work, but not for me and many people.

Maybe is a Windows/Ableton version issue since I see that you are using Mac.

I don't find any other explanation. In any case, Ableton should adress this.

Thanks for contributing.

and this is the other side of the coin

Ah watching that video I'm able to recreate it now! Also narrowed down when and why it happens.

Swapping between Clip and Device View is what's making it shrink back down. If you go to View>Second Window you can see it in action. It swaps places with Device View but the pane on the other window is still small, it gets put into the small pane, shrinks the lanes to fit, and then doesn't bring them back up when you switch back. Ableton must function like this in the background as well even when the second window isn't open.

While the clip view is on the other window you can make that pane bigger and then see that it isn't happening anymore. I'd call that a design oversight/bug for sure. Totally annoying behavior.

Have they actually published a full blown user manual for 11 yet? Can only seem to find a few help articles and the ableton live online manual is still referencing 10. Maybe a bit sad but I like to RTFM before getting started

Sticking with v10 on win7 until pdc gets sorted. That's the only thing I need. All the other bells and whistles are cool but not enough to justify upgrading OS and the pita that comes with that aka reinstalling everything and dealing with potential compatibility issues.

A v11 manual is included in the download.

I didn't get a v11 manual with my download. Can't find anything in my Ableton account or on their site about a v11 manual. Not that I'd read it but still...

While Ableton is running go to the "help" menu and select "read the manual" and it opens automagically

Whats going on with the pdc?

Timing in ableton is generally not as tight as say, logic, and when pdc is engaged it's even less so. Plenty of people say they have no problem with it or know workarounds, but a large amount of other people feel the same as me. Plenty of discussion on it if you Google.

I'd say Logic PDC is worse than Ableton overall.

The main Ableton issue is that tempo-synced effects (eg LFO-tool etc.) are not properly compensated in some situations. You can work around this by placing the tempo-synced plugin before latency causing plugins, by using a timing offset in the plugin (tip: hover over effects to see how many samples of delay they cause), or using midi notes to trigger instead.

Logic has lots of long standing issues/bugs. For example, automation in Logic can have terrible timing and this is much more difficult to work around IMO. Logic X (and 9) automation completely broken

And there’s more...
https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/v...c.php?t=145627

No DAW is perfect so pick your poison.

Have to admit I haven't used logic since v5 on pc lol. Seems as though the more that's going on in our DAWs the harder it is for them to stay tight. I'd like to know how the pros deal with this stuff

Timing for what - hardware, software? The pdc engaged makes it looser? Not sure what you are talking about. The only thing that would cause pdc to be inaccurate is 3rd party plugins that dont report latency properly.

Id google but your comment is so vague im not sure where id begin.

I'm all itb and mostly use 3rd party stuff. For many Ableton is known to be bad to terrible for jitter, clock handling and mushy timing. I'm pretty sensitive to timing discrepancies. I know other people who don't have this problem or at least don't percieve it. Maybe you're one of them. There's plenty of discussion if you google 'ableton timing issues' 'ableton jitter' etc. But it sounds like you don't need to anyway.

I never heard of jitter with plugins.. Can you provide an example?

I can only find people complaining about midi and audio recording timing issues with hardware. But this is not just Ableton, every DAW suffers from this. If you want rock solid midi clock output out of any DAW, you need something like USAMO or ERM Multiclock.

We all are sensitive to timing discrepancies. you aren’t a special snowflake there.

If you are making everything ITB, there is no jitter. Think about what you are actually saying.

Jitter complaints come from hardware, not 100% ITB.

don't really feel like getting into it with you, but all i'll say is this.. i was pointing those things out because it seems as though timing in general is one of the weaker sides to an otherwise great piece of software. no claims to being special needed. plenty of other people have pdc (and other timing based) issues. i didn't say i have jitter problems.

Im still not sure what you actually said. Your last post said to “google ableton jitter problems”. Sounds like maybe you should do that because you are all over the place.

I have never heard of anyone using software and producing 100% ITB and having timing issues.

Not trying to start anything but your complaint doesn’t make any sense if you aren’t using hardware.

I know the "Ableton has bad timing" thing and "Ableton has PDC problems" thing have become some kind of online common knowledge but I'm not sure how it got that way. If you're not leaving the computer it's sample accurate and I haven't found any PDC issues that are actually Ableton's fault and that they don't give you some way to fix.

I'm genuinely asking, as I did earlier in this thread cause I'm curious, what are the PDC problems and timing problems you're having?

EDIT: There are a handful of plugins, including some in Live, that sync to absolute beat position from the transport. This isn't delay compensated on purpose for some reason. Not sure what that reason is, but people have been mentioning it for years. This is basically LFO Tool, VolumeShaper, and Auto Filter and Looper in Ableton. Maybe that's where people's PDC problems come from?

Yep. I never had any timing problem in Live (ITB), except few that are documented in the Live manual, are part of the Live architecture and actually make sense : the latency compensation of modulated devices placed after latency inducing plugins and of the sends being routed to other sends are (I think) the only "issues" ITB.
Until you know how and why, it's not an issue anymore...
It's well explained here : https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/ar...mpensation-FAQ

I had other issues before when recording Reason rewired (using external instrument built-in plugin). I don't remember exactly the issue and the way to solve it (because rewire doesn't exist anymore), but it needed some trickery to get everything aligned.

I think it's well documented too on internet that any timing issue in Live involves only external hardware, and is actually part of the nature of the hardware stuff : because it's external, Live doesn't have any way to predict latency.

By the way, it's explained somewhere at the end of the manual that because of its original purpose (to play music "live"), Live is prioritizing latency against jitter (a bit more latency than other daws, but less jitter). Of course it's only a talk, but at least my experience is that ITB I never had any timing issue...

One thing I do like about Ableton is that they publish useful info about how everything works like the PDC notes above and this audio fact sheet:
https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/audio-fact-sheet/

Once you understand how it’s all working you can make sure you’re getting the best out of the software.

Woah that's the first I heard of this. I used ReWire all the time and that's a serious bummer. Just tried opening Live 11 and Renoise and, yep, not rewired anymore.

Live 11 is super buggy. Damn it Ableton, you charge $200 for an update which should've been free and it doesn't work. WTF!

Why should a major upgrade be free?

It works fine over here and has been very solid....

YMMV

you can find it in the Help menu inside the software

It’s not Ableton’s fault rewire is no more. It’s Propellerhead’s. Oh excuse me, Reason Studios’.

same here... overload indicator all the time turned on, even with the most basic project of 10 channels.
I had to change to a 256 samples buffer, when I always used 128, so a downgrade situation here right now...

Yea, I know it has nothing to do with Ableton. It was just mentioned in this thread about Ableton and I used it with Ableton, Renoise, and Numerology on the regular. I used to use it with Logic and Ableton as well but now that we have comping in Live 11 I've gladly moved on from that hassle.

In my beta testing the CPU usage is basically identical to 10, you can just see CPU spikes you couldn't before cause of that overload indicator. It bugged me at first, and I do have CPU problems separate from just seeing that light which I talked about in here earlier, but I just shut the light off.

EDIT: I feel like most of my replies in this thread are some version of "that's not true." Haha. I'm really not trying to be contradictory just for fun, I know that seems to be going around lately. Also every post seems to have an EDIT on it as well.

Yes. It’s a shame because being able to connect DAWs to each other is an infinitely useful feature.